Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Minister going into my next question, although he didn't really answer the investment of $500,000 into a new facility that could help supplement the needs that we must be directly sending these people for. I think the Minister referenced it in such a way that really we are sending these people south for some reason, because obviously they are not being treated in Hay River for another reason, and the Hay River facility, the way I understand it, unless it has been clearly referenced in a different context, must be suiting and serving different needs. So from looking at this as brush strokes, why are we not investing that $500,000 into the Hay River facility, at least keeping our citizens north? When will I see that initiative of the shifted dollars being invested in a territorial sense rather than sending people south? Because running a facility at 25 to 30 percent, if I was running a business, I think I would be running myself into the ground. Just referencing that, when will I see the shift of those types of dollars to the Hay River facility, to supplement that failing grade of occupancy?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we're in the process of doing this review. The hope, of course, is that our prevention as well will pay off, and the amount of people requiring treatment will drop off. However, the health indicators we have, and alcohol consumption indicators we have indicate that may be somewhat optimistic in the short term. So we are going to work as we are on the acute care side and the long-term care side to look at these efficiencies. We have our target, $2.7 million this time, and the Minister of Finance has also already indicated that next year it is $20 million, and the year after it is another $20 million. So we are going to be looking very closely at all our services to make sure that they are as efficient and effective as possible in all areas, including this one. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Seeing my time has run out, I better ask my questions in a clump here. How many people per year does the Hay River facility see, and how many people are sent south? I would be happy to release the floor at that time. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Ninety-nine were the number of clients that went through Nats' Ejee K'e this year, and 100 clients were for the south.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I don't have anybody else on my list, and I see Mr. Hawkins

with his hand up. Okay, Mr. Hawkins, we will give you one more round of questioning.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for recognizing my pressing questions, and thank you, colleagues. Mr. Minister, are you able to speak to the success rate of our 99 clients at the $1.6 million Hay River facility per year versus the 100 clients that travel south that are $500,000 southern access to facility treatment programs? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if the Member means did the individual clients come out of their programs and go on to lead a life of sobriety in industry and hard work and become successful in all of those areas, I can't say. I can't say if in fact they relapsed as soon as they got home. All I know is what our broad numbers tell us, that the alcohol issue is one of the biggest scourges we have in the Northwest Territories and it is not getting any better. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the department do any tracking of this information on return clientele to the services in order to get some awareness that programs are either working or not working? Is the facility in Hay River able to increase its operational level noting that it runs at a 25 to 30 percent capacity? Are they able to increase their capacity even though they have empty beds?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the key points that these numbers demonstrate and what the literature tells you, as well, and what we know politically to be true in dealing with people, once they require treatment, it's a very difficult, high end, expensive process and the issue of prevention and promotion for prevention and making the right choices is where we have to focus our efforts. Does Nats' Ejee K'e have the capacity to increase and response to their requirements? I do believe they do. I just think we have to sit down and take a broad system and look at what our needs are as a territory. They have a board that reports to the Deh Cho Health and Social Services Authority, but it's a territorial facility that we fund and I think we have to sit down with the people in the business and clearly look at what our needs are. We also want to look at increasing our ability to access some of the Salvation Army programs, as well, on a cost-per-bed basis, which will give us greater latitude and will reduce some of those half-million dollars that we now spend down south. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Speaking again on the treatment issue, what are you spending on the localized area, referring strictly on Yellowknife, on treatment programs from your department? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, if he's referring to addictions treatment funding, we currently spend $611,000 between the Salvation Army and the women's healing and recovery program. Plus Stanton has some funding as well, $212,000. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, is the Minister in any way able to speak to the success rate of any of these programs, be it run by the Salvation Army, be it Stanton, be it the Hay River facility or southern facilities? Is the Minister able to reference any success rate at all on how our dollars are being spent? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would, at some point, have to agree on what the possible definition of success is. I know many, many people in my life, in my travels across the North, who no longer drink, I know many people when you go to parties who don't drink. Conversely, I know as Minister in this business, that for every person that quits drinking, there seem to be three or four who start. Once again, success is very difficult to quantity in this particular area. I also know we still have babies being born with FAS and FASD. I guess we can measure the lack of success would probably be the easier way to do it, because we know what those numbers are. We know what the draw is on these programs and we know what our consumption rates are. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.