Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there are a number of reasons why that would be. Some may be the gender. The Hay River program is a 28-day program that has only one intake. They used to have a continuous intake problem and they don't do that anymore. Now you are limited to a monthly entry. There may be some other pressing side issues, what they call concurrent disorders. We talked about that previously in terms of the training of community wellness workers. When it's alcohol, there are chances that there are other related pressing problems. So those are some of the issues. I know we do send some parents south, so the program at Nats' Ejee K'eh as I recollect is geared to men. So those are some of the issues that

would make it necessary to use southern placement facilities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I just want to hammer my point clear on success rate. In my discussion in the not so recent past, but with the Tree of Peace probably about 18 months ago, someone in the community came to me about a family member requiring treatment and the fact that they can't truly access the treatment they needed. They were significantly overwhelmed with alcohol and drug issues. So they didn't know where to go and for some reason, I am glad they called because they needed to call someone and I called the Tree of Peace. The Tree of Peace referenced the stress over and over and over again the success rate where some people are being treated in the southern facilities. They are sent to Grand Prairie or wherever as a holiday and the success rate of that trip was significantly lower than being treated in their home community.

The other thing is referencing the out-of-town healing, the fact that it was a shock when the people returned to their community and they felt they had zero support mechanism, not always, but typically outside of their home community. So the success rate was lower, which means we may be saving dollars by sending them south, but we get repeat clients, therefore, just because we can send more doesn't mean we can get a better product. So the point I am really getting at is, as my time runs out, I am just going to stress to the Minister--and I say this without prejudice--that I am disappointed I don't get a sense of the success rate. It was made clear to me our success rate is much stronger if we keep our people in our community and, with that said, it means a lot. So if we are sending folks out for whatever reason, it would mean a lot for us as an assembly to understand what type of numbers we are dealing with. Maybe that's the option. I want to make sure we are spending our money where the people are getting the best value. As I close my point, I don't necessarily mean best value means bottom dollar. Best value is how people are being treated. As far as I am concerned, this is a pressing issue, as has been pointed out earlier. People's lives are on the line. Some are in destructive circumstances and that is a pressing issue. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the final comments.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. There was not a question there, more of a comment, Mr. Miltenberger. We will move on. Page 6-13, program delivery support, operations expense, total operations expense, $31.789 million.

Page 6-15, program delivery support, grants and contributions, contributions, total contributions. $18.381 million.

Page 6-17, health service programs, operations expense, total operations expense, $132.249 million.

Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Which country was it? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if the Member would share that information with us we'd be happy to check into it. We have made contact with other countries, Australia and New Zealand. We have had some preliminary looks at the Philippines. We did some work there. As well, we're looking at some possible staffing issues in the Ukraine. So if the Member had some information, we'd be happy to look at that and talk to him about following up on it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Allen, did you wish to respond?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the record, I'll read into the record, it's dated February 2004, the Fraser Forum, a Fraser Institute review of public policy in Canada. It's on pages 27 and 28. There are a number of references, notes to the issue of new health reform policy in Slovakia. It reminds Canada of a lesson it has yet to learn. Just for the record I'll read into it. Again, I think it's an important article in that it shows that there is, as I stated earlier, from a global perspective, concepts of global reform being introduced and trying to meet the ever-increasing costs of health care across the world. Certainly I found this article very interesting in the context of it articulating some reforms that are cost shared through both a patient and the health care system. I just wanted to raise this article in the context of this sector of page 6 of 17. There's no real question to that, Mr. Chairman, just to point out to the Minister that there are further reforms occurring in the world. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Thanks, Mr. Minister. We'll now move on to Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have two questions under this section. The first one is for the breakdown of other expenses for $25 million, please. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is $3,000 for travel and transportation; $601,000 for contract services; $24.533 million for fees and payments. Mr. Chairman, I believe that $25,000 comprises of $602,000 for NWT hospitals Canada Blood Services; $20.103 million for out-of-territories hospitals, which is Capital Health Authority and our funding arrangement with Nunavut; $1.13 million for fee-for-service billings to NWT residents; $594,000 for fee-for-service billings to non-residents; $196,000 for a new standardized physician contract; and, $2.629 million for physicians outside the NWT fee-for-service billings, totalling $25.137 million. Thank you.

Thank you for that detail, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the $20 million to the Capital Health Authority in Edmonton, I believe, could the Minister indicate how much of an increase he's expecting to pay in this budget compared to last year's budget? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize if I didn't state clearly. There are two under that $20 million. About $10 million or so is the Capital Health Authority and there's a built in escalator. I'll get Mr. St. Germaine to speak to that. As well, we have another fairly significant contract with Nunavut worth about $8 million. I'll let Mr. St. Germaine elaborate.