Thank you, Madam Chair. Just moving on to the issues of colleges, there is the Aurora College system with expenditures of $28 million within the next year and it does have some primary responsibilities of basic education and training. I am just wondering what proportion, if any, of that expenditure is going to be directed to the development and the accreditation of a lot of the instructors that are in our northern college system -- and no disrespect here -- which do have the expertise in the fields they are instructing in, but really don't have any education experience in educating. I am wondering what portion of that funding might be towards certifying our instructors or upgrading their structural requirements that the students require every year.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Next on the list I have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was going to save any additional comments on this early childhood funding that is being proposed for a cut, but seeing that there has been some tremendous passion and momentum being built here on this issue, I wanted to perhaps put an

exclamation mark on the point we are raising here and enforcing. I think many Members have raised the fact that it doesn't make sense to be evaluating a project as the project is being finished. I know, having been here long enough, if we pass this budget and go away, all the requests will be made to the Minister and the department to find the money and the commitment that Minister makes to try to find it may not result in keeping this program or reinstating it. I am not doubting the Minister's commitment on this, but it's just the way things shake out around here usually. I just think it's really unfortunate if we were to cut this program where it seems to have such momentum and it's got widespread support across the Territories.

I am just noticing how strange it is that it appears that some programs are just entrenched and they just stay and they get funded and funded and funded over again and then something new comes along and lights up a spark, you start making some differences and then three years is the time it takes to build some kind of momentum. Just when it's getting some legs under it, we are going to cut them out. I don't know if I can walk away from that knowing I have a hand in that. I think I would really urge this Assembly to try to figure out a way within the next week to see if we can save this program.

The understanding out there already is that this program will come to an end. It could be that all those people who have been involved in this program have found something else to do. We may be too late to resuscitate this. I think that goes to the argument of the difficulty restarting it once it has been concluded. If there was any chance at all to maintain this and improve this, it's now and we have a week to do so. I know, Madam Chair, that the Minister of Finance is very firm on saying and I am sure he's going to do everything he can to keep a $50 million drop we got from the federal government to clear our deficit because he's determined to have a deficit-free budget, but I do believe this year we were going to end up with a $47 million deficit. But now we have a $50 million correction from the federal government, so we may actually have $3 million to play with.

Madam Chair, I just want to say that's how governments usually work. You get into fiscal difficulties and the Minister of Finance sends a directive to 13 departments and says we have to cut so much and then things get cut. People out there don't care that ECE has to meet certain requirements and had to cut this program. They are going to say why are you still doing this or that, still spending $12 million in travel but you are going to cut $800,000 on a program that is really working for us in the communities. People don't care where the money pockets come from and they may not really care that you have zero deficit versus a $47 million deficit and that's a good government .I don't' want to make light of that, but it is our job to look at all priorities and see what our decisions are. I do believe we have to tighten our belts where we can and we should cut programs where there is a waste, but if there are programs that are working, we must make priority decisions. If there was anything that I have seen during the time of the review of the ECE budget and many other departments our committee reviewed, this is really something we must do everything we can to save.

So there is a lot of passion there. So that is my point and I think we are going to be dealing with this motion later on. We will continue to work with that. I am going to keep on fighting this. I do believe our committee has the support of the Members to do something about this.

I do have a question that is a lot less exciting, I think. I just want to ask a question on the general government department area because I don't really know where it fits into the specifics. It has to do with the announcement, press release, that the Minister let out on February 10th about agreement to provide assessment of international credentials. This has been an important issue in the North as well, especially in light of the fact that our territory is part of Canada and the immigration trend has been to try to attract potential professional people to work and live in Canada. The NWT is certainly right up there. Whether they are doctors, lawyers, engineers or any other professions, in the past those people have had problems getting the proper credentials to practice their profession in Canada.

Reading the press release, I have some questions on the details. I would like to know what professions, trades or qualification areas the assessment service applies to. I understand we are using the service of Alberta. Do those residents in the NWT who want to be qualified for their international credentials have to apply to Alberta? Are there any linkages to any federal funding programs that I know are available in other jurisdictions? For example, in British Columbia, I understand there are pilot programs to provide financial support to engineers, for example, who are educated in other countries, to train to get their credentials up to speed. I am sure they have all the credentials, it's just being qualified for Canadian papers. Those are three prongs to my questions that are quite unrelated to my first passionate point. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. I think this would be an appropriate time to give Mr. Dent some time to contemplate the answer to those questions while we take a short break. Thank you.

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We will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. We left off with Ms. Lee asking a question. Ms. Lee, did you want to restate that question, or is the Minister ready to answer that question? Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member had asked three questions about a program that we have in terms of recognizing international credentials. What we have done is rather than try and develop the expertise in house, is we have actually contracted the service with the Government of Alberta so that it is their people who will evaluate. What has to happen is that the credentials have to be sent to the office in Alberta where they are then checked for authenticity, for consistency, and the institutional status to make sure that they would qualify. What happens then is a general statement of comparability with Canadian standards is issued. So some bodies will then recognize it. There are a good number that will, but not all bodies will recognize that. For instance, the College of Physicians and Surgeons still would have to have their own criteria for making sure that a doctor was able to practice in Canada, but there are other jurisdictions across Canada or other bodies across Canada that will accept them. For instance, BC speech language pathologists, their speech language society will recognize the criteria. CGAs in Nova Scotia will

recognize. So it is quite broad and it does include organizations across Canada, but it is one where not all bodies will recognize the qualifications.

The Member had asked where people should apply. They can apply or get the address through any career centre. So all of the career centres in the Northwest Territories can make the information available. There is also a 1-800 number so that if people have questions about it they can get answers to their questions using the 1-800 number.

The Member also asked about a sponsorship program. In the Northwest Territories we don't, for instance, have a program that provides sponsorship to people who are engineers in another country and they are planning to come into the territory to work. Those sorts of programs are run by each individual province or territory, and are set up exclusively by them. So the example from BC that the Member had mentioned is one that was set up by the province of BC, and if we wanted to do the same sort of thing we could. To date, our government hasn't embarked on any of those sponsorship programs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you. Just a small follow-up to that question. I asked the Minister if he could tell us what professions this assessment applies to, but I am thinking it might be a really extensive list. I will rephrase that and ask if this assessment program that we have contracted with Alberta is subject to consent by professions. For example, the engineering society here, or architectural society or medical or law society, they have to agree to be part of this program, that it is not a blanketed application to all professions.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, this doesn't replace the registration with their professional organization if that is required to practice a profession. What it does is the credentials are checked and then assessed against a Canadian standard, and what you get is a certificate that says yes, you meet the standards, then you could submit that to the professional organization and they would then review it and determine whether or not to agree that you should be able to practice. For instance, Alberta Opticians recognize the standards and are willing to accept them. It is a fairly extensive list, but it doesn't replace the regulation that comes from the professional bodies.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. No further general comments. I will now move to the detail, 9-7 is the department summary. We will go to 9-9, directorate and administration, operations expense, total operations expense, $6.444 million. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Keeping up with the work that we have been doing, may I ask the Minister for the breakdown on the other expenses for $2.9 million? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under other expenses under the directorate, miscellaneous travel, materials, supplies, purchased contract services, and public relations. Actually, sorry, purchased contract supplies are $99,000; public relations, $36,000; under policy and planning the EFAP, family assistance program, education leave, miscellaneous travel, materials, supplies and purchased contract services there is $84,000. Mr. Chairman, I will start that again.

Under policy and planning, under EFAP and education leave there is $84,000; under miscellaneous travel, materials, supplies and purchased contract services there is $126,000; under management services, ECE system maintenance there is $2.239 million. Over half of that is for chargebacks on the computer system, by the way, that is for ongoing support for CMAS and computer chargebacks, for department contracts. Fax, copier, mail, and courier there is $155,000, and for miscellaneous travel, materials, supplies, purchased contracts services there is $193,000. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for that detail, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that we are dealing with a level of details that we have not gone through before. I understand that, but what I am noticing now from the Minister's answers is that the way the department reports these figures is quite different. So far we have had, I don't know how many departments now, all of the other expenses were broken up with travel and transportation first, then material and supplies, and then contract services, purchased services, then often you would have another other expenses that would have a sub-breakdown. Whereas, the department here is breaking down each activity by another program underneath. I am wondering if it is possible for the Minister to just give a breakdown by travel, because that is what we are really interested in, and material services, contract services, purchased services for the whole activity section if possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, what I could do is if the interest of the committee is travel, what I do have is I have a listing of travel broken out for the whole department, and perhaps I could just run through that listing. This wouldn't be under this task then, this would include all of it, so you get the total travel budget all at once if you'd like, you can tell where it is coming from. But I could break it out for the committee all at once here, and that might be the easiest way to do it.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you. Yes, that will take us to some length here, but also we are not disinterested in the other areas of other expenses either, such as material and supplies, contract services and such, where in some departments it was in the millions of dollars. Could the Minister help us out with that, please? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, we would be happy to do it whichever way the committee would like. We have all of the information here and we can do it any way. It appears to me though, that Ms. Lee would prefer that I stick to mixing travel in as we go through each page, or separating it out as we go through each page, and I can do that too. For instance, on this page we are talking about under the directorate and administration, there is $73,000 for travel.