Thank you, Madam Chair. We are doing a number of things. As the focus is kind of shifting over largely to homeownership as a result of increased employment opportunities across the North, we've always had a counselling component within the LHOs. The tenant relations officers are expected to do counselling. For the most part, the development of the counselling skills has been...We could improve. The positions are mainly given to people with qualifications mostly at the college diploma level. We have provided direction to our officials to look at the appropriate workshops and courses we can provide to our staff, our managers and our tenant relations officers with a focus on financial counselling and life skills. We don't expect our people to become licensed counsellors, but we want them to be able to provide general counselling and basic life skills advice. We plan to also improve our assessment and discussions at the front end with our clients when they come to talk to us. We want to make sure our clients are fully aware of what you are getting into.

We've also incorporated a new program called a supported lease program where there is a period of time where the clients can move into a facility or a house and they're coached in ways of what it would cost in terms of operating a facility and also budgeting. So there is an attempt right now to increase that whole aspect. It's important for us. We want to see people moving more towards homeownership. We have direction. We are

taking the Auditor General's report as direction and also direction from the previous Social Programs committee where we have to increase our collections and we have to ensure that all our tenants and all our clients are fully aware of what the rules for public housing, the rules for homeownership are. So that's the focus right now for us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. On the list for general comments, I still have Ms. Lee, Mr. Delorey, Mr. Hawkins and Mr. Braden, but at this time I am going to suggest we take a break and come back. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

I will call Committee of the Whole back to order. We're on the NWT Housing Corporation, general comments. Next on the list I have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to follow up on the questions I had asked earlier of the Minister, but the Minister had answered those questions. However, by the time he answered those questions, my 10 minutes were up, so I just want to follow up on that again.

Madam Chair, I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with this Minister and his answers about some really valid questions that we had asked. I could tell you that not only as the Member for Range Lake but as a committee Chair, this tender for 22 mobile homes and exempting the BIP came as a complete surprise to us. It was suggested to us at the committee meeting as something that was an idea. I have just surveyed committee Members and none of the committee Members thought that this had become as much as a permanent thing or real thing or real happening until we saw the ad. In fact, when I was talking to the Minister about this, I was then told that this was decided by the previous Assembly. So that should tell me that it was already decided, but that was not communicated. I think the evidence is in our committee report on pages when it's speaking about our concerns. In fact, later on we will be making a motion to the effect that we think this thing should be looked into more. So that's one thing.

I think if the Minister wants to have this kind of working relationship with the committee, I'm prepared to act accordingly. I really thought that he had good intentions and goodwill, and that he respected the role of standing committee and the Members of this side in terms of having input and shaping the policy issues. But the way the Minister has...Not only how we came to learn about this thing, which was in the media, then I was trying to give the Minister a chance to explain and his 10 minutes of answer was completely unacceptable. He's saying I went up and down the valley, this is what everybody wants, we have to create houses and this is how we're going to do it. In fact, he even said maybe the Members don't understand. Well I can tell the Minister that I can tell you that there are teachers who have been bunked up in a house on the next street to mine for about the past 10 years now. I don't need the housing Minister telling me that we don't have a housing problem in Yellowknife, and I don't need the housing Minister telling me that this is the only way we're going to solve the housing problem in the Territories, and that is by ordering 22 mobile homes and totally ignoring a government policy. We could just call a 1-800 number to Las Vegas and order 1,000 mobile homes if that's how we want to solve our housing problem.

I am really sick and tired of arguing about the BIP. We have a BIP office. We pay money for people to keep our BIP office. We pay money to have a web site. We require companies to come and register because it's a government policy. But apparently it's a government policy the government can just ignore. Then you ask the Minister what's the evidence that this was going to cost more money. If the Minister really believes that the only way -- the Minister and the Cabinet. I'm putting responsibility on the Cabinet, too -- if the Cabinet decides that this is the only way to go, that the BIP costs us too much. For a construction project like the jail they wanted to exempt the BIP and we argued for three years about whether that should be done or not. If the Cabinet decides that the only way we're going to provide housing for the next four years is to get rid of BIP, then they should stand up and say that. Have the balls to do that.

---Interjection

Well I don't know what else to say. I'm sorry; but you cannot say...Okay, let's say affirmative action. Can we say...Madam Chair, I apologize for the word, but I'm telling you I am tired of this argument.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Did you just conclude your remarks? I was just distracted for a minute, trying to discuss with the Clerk your passionate choice of words.

Madam Chair, I just wanted to take the very first opportunity to apologize and retract. I could not come up with another way of saying it. I'm frankly tired of arguing about the BIP. If the government thinks that this doesn't work, then deal with it, get rid of it, present evidence for it. Don't just say well, we're not going to apply it because this is the only way we're going to have housing in the NWT.

Another thing, Madam Chair. I think I've gone over two issues. One is the kind of relationship the Minister and the corporation is going to have with the Social Programs committee; the second thing is the BIP.

For the Minister to say I think RWED is reviewing this policy and you could ask them; well, I think all the Cabinet Ministers should get a lesson on what it means to have a government policy, and their obligations to follow their own policy. What would we do if the Minister came up and said we don't...Okay, you want to make an exception? You should be able to establish that. You can't just announce it in the newspaper and say we're not going to have this apply. Then when you get asked about it and say this was done by the last Assembly, what kind of avoidance of responsibility is that?

Like I said earlier today, I am really tired of not having any input, or Ministers just going and doing things and making an exception for where it meets their interests, or where it serves their purpose. Then to come back and say well, if you don't support this, you're not supporting the housing policy for the Territories. We had a Member who showed a direct concern about the fact that mobile homes in the NWT may not be the way to go. The Housing Corporation is suggesting now, the Minister is suggesting we're going to get these mobile homes and we're going to sell them to the market. It's going to be cost recovery. Well, we

wanted to know more about that. We have a suggestion in the committee report that suggests that we think there should be more studies done to see if these communities are ready to go onto the open market, because it takes transition. When I asked that question earlier, the Minister said well, you know, I have all the information. So I just think that's showing a complete disrespect for the process here, a complete disrespect for the work of the committees, and I hope that's the last time the Minister does that, because if that's how he wants to work together, then I'm ready to do it that way too and I don't think that's going to get us anywhere. I will just end my statement there. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Would the Minister care to respond?

Madam Chair, in response to the comments by Ms. Lee, again I will be repeating a lot of what I said earlier. We did get our first opportunity to report to the committee. We did have to go to Cabinet to get approval to move forward on this, and we did have to file a number of documents before we received that approval, including a communications plan and an implementation plan. We are also working with some deadlines and time factors on this issue. I guess I have to apologize if the Member feels that we haven't done enough. We took the opportunity and we did meet, we did consult. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. General comments. Next I have Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that the Minister has said that the direction for the Housing Corporation to go ahead with this waiving of the BIP and going to this tender was made in the last government. I would like to know if the Minister can tell me what date the record of decision was made from Cabinet.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. McLeod.

Madam Chair, our system doesn't allow us to have access to the records of the decision from previous governments. We do have written direction. I don't know if we are in a position to provide it at this immediate point, but we can certainly find that information and pull it up for the Member. The decision was made in the 14th Assembly and we did have to go back to Cabinet, I think it was in February, to get our communications plan approved and our implementation plan approved.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It seems to me I heard the Minister say, in answer to Ms. Lee, that he took the first opportunity to come before committee with this decision to waive the BIP on the project. I know that Cabinet was operating for a while after we left, and I would like to know what date Cabinet made the decision to be able to waive the BIP. I think that it's a move away from government policy and I think Members have a right to know when it was made and under what circumstances. We're all part of this government. When we're going to change government policy like that, I think everybody should be involved in it. So I would like to get that date, and I would also like to know, from the Minister, if the waiving of the BIP is only applicable to this one contract, or does the Housing Corporation now have the ability to put out contracts without applying the BIP in the future. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we would have to commit to get back to the Member with the actual date of the meeting and when the final decision was made. Also in response to the question that this initiative applies only to these 42 units; that's correct. At this point, it's a one-time request to waive the BIP and we would require further Cabinet approval to go any further than these market units. We are also intending to provide to the Construction Association after this first year, a status report of a number of different tallies that we will be providing in terms of how this whole initiative went. We can also provide that to the Members in the House.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It seems to me I heard the Minister say 42 units. I think the tender I was referring to was for 22 units. How many more contracts are we going to be seeing coming out if the number is 42, if that's the right number that I heard? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the contract for this year is for 22 units, and another 20 next year.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That's all I will say on that for now, but I would like to get the date when that Cabinet decision was made.

I want to move to another area and that is on the 10-year plan that the Minister has talked about. I would like to know when this plan was devised and if there was any involvement of Members in this. Is this supposed to be replacing the harmonization program? Is there any intention of the corporation coming forward with looking at the harmonization program again? How does this program relate to the harmonization program? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. McLeod.