Thank you, Madam Chair. To my right is the secretary to the Financial Management Board, Mr. Lew Voytilla.

Thank you. Are there any general comments on Bill 11? Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Madam Chair. This supp covers a number of different areas; that's to be expected. The one aspect of this that comes through in several departments, Madam Chair, mainly through RWED, but also in Education, Culture and Employment, MACA and Finance, are a number of initiatives related to pipeline preparation and planning. The largest of these is, I believe, under RWED and this is to provide funding to

establish a Mackenzie Valley pipeline office. We are talking about the creation of six positions here, six-and-a-half positions actually. There are other new PYs being created from some of these other areas. In the research that committee has undertaken, Madam Chair, it seems that with existing positions already dedicated to pipeline research and preparations, plus these new ones, plus some of the auxiliary ones that other departments are starting up, we are looking at assembling a force here of somewhere in the neighbourhood of perhaps a dozen or 15 different people involved in the pipeline preparation.

This is something that I think is long overdue. A fair amount of profile has already been given on this topic by this assembly, Madam Chair, in the creation of a joint committee of three Ministers, three Members, a rather large group that is going to undertake from a political direction some of the administration here. Of course, now we are seeing an administrative team being put together here and we are also seeing our counterparts with the federal government and in private industry assembling their teams. So all this seems to be moving along quite nicely.

My concern here, Madam Chair, is that in all of the positions that have been outlined in this supp with the research available to us so far, we see nothing in the GNWT's preparation that covers the interest of what I would call the social agenda. All of the positions, Madam Chair, relate to a regulatory, administrative or bureaucratic or policy kinds of issues very much directed at serving and feeding the interest of government. Madam Chair, there have been consistent cries from the communities that their social infrastructure is very vulnerable to the impacts of this sudden boom or impact that is going to happen. We all have a pretty good sense of what it's going to be like. We've had experience here with the Norman Wells pipeline in the 1980s. We don't want to do that again.

So the concern that I am flagging here, Madam Chair, is so far our attempts at coordinating pipeline-related activities are going to fail the people in the small communities, large communities on that route as well, for that matter. We just don't seem to get it, Madam Chair, that this isn't all an economic and efficiency exercise. This is something that is really going to make a difference at the street level, at the community level, at the doorstep of virtually every family that lives in the community. We are not paying attention to our obligation and our duties to coordinate.

So I think I can leave it there, Madam Chair. By the time I can get to that page, I can have some other information to present. I would like to serve notice here in committee that I am prepared to move deleting this $850,000 item anticipating, of course, that committee or that the government will go back and look at how it's balancing our efforts at coordinating these activities and that we can anticipate a new supp but better addressing the social concerns perhaps later on in the year.

The question I would like to put to the Minister in general comments, Madam Chair, is at this very senior coordinating level, why aren't we seeing representatives and officers and duties and mandates that will address social infrastructure needs of a Mackenzie Valley pipeline project? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. What is here in the supplementary appropriation bill in the area of resource development and impacts is our first go at staffing up our departments, particularly this one item with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, to be prepared for the wrapping up of preparation for the pipeline, the regulatory end. We feel that's a minimum. There are other areas that we know as a government we need to focus on, and that is in the planning process. But we felt that this was a minimum, that there needed to be that coordination the Member was talking about so that all departments and levels of government are prepared for the next phase, but at minimum it was felt that this portion needed to proceed, so that we can be at the front end starting to be prepared for the regulatory process. At this time, we don't have that ability within the existing budgets of the department. So it is something that we, as a government, are not forgetting about. It's not on the radar in the sense of this supplementary appropriation, but it is on the planning calendar overall through government trying to ensure that we are going to be prepared and wrapping up. So departments have been told that we needed more coordination and we needed to go forward in a business plan process to begin to be prepared in those other areas Members highlighted. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Isn't that part of the regulatory process that we are going to be engaged in soon I hope? Doesn't that also cover the socioeconomic impacts of this project, and how the companies plan on managing some of those things? Am I mistaken there? If what Mr. Roland is saying is we are preparing for the regulatory stuff, well isn't the social impact part of the regulatory questions that are going to be answered? Have I got that correct? I will leave it at that for now, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Member is correct in this. As we begin to try and be prepared for this as a government we are focused on doing what we can within our available funding that we have and that the resources departments have. So the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and Health and Social Services are working on issues that they need to identify and deal with, and try to be prepared with. So it is something that we are doing. Unfortunately, in a sense, a lot of what is being done is being done within existing resources so we are stretching our human resources as well as our financial resources at the front end trying to do this work, but it is in fact something that we are working on and preparing as a government overall, and departments will have to put into their budgets what they feel is necessary to be more involved in this process. So that is something that is in consideration and will be part of the business plan process as we go into it. But this was felt that at this time within our resources and what we need to get prepared for that these requirements in the supplementary appropriation are required at this time, and

it was felt that they needed to go ahead through the supplementary appropriation before us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Next for general comments I have Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. With respect to supp number one, I kind of make the same observations as my honourable colleague for Great Slave, and that is for me I am happy that our government is going to prepare for the pipeline, but my concern here is that perhaps we are branching in the wrong direction because some of these things in this appropriation looks like each department wants to set up their own pipeline readiness office, and that is not something that I am prepared to endorse. I think the proposal by RWED is the one strength that we could go forward with, and I'd like to see that be kind of the overall pipeline...our pipeline readiness office as opposed to having one person in Finance, one person in ECE and one person in MACA because that is the kind of thing we have been speaking about in the House and that is let's have a coordinated effort, and get all our departments working together for the benefit of the people, and this is just not the way it is turning out at first face. But, I think we are in the right direction. I think with more consultation with Regular Members, and as our pipeline committee meets more often, we will provide some coordinated effort for the benefit and strive toward some of the things that we are heading towards, and of course the social aspects of the pipeline readiness and the development is key. I am not too sure of all these positions that are in the supp. Research has indicted it looks like 13.5 PYs. I will be asking more questions on that later, but at first face it looks like 13.5 PYs are dedicated towards the pipeline and being ready for it. It is probably not something that I am really looking at right now, and that is to grow our bureaucracy more. Some of them are necessary, but we will point it out as we go into line by line as we deliberate the supp here. Perhaps the Minister can detail for me if it is true in the overall supp there are 13.5 persons indicated in there. That is some of the things that kind of jumped out to me. Otherwise, I think this supp looks like a huge amount, but I understand a lot of it is lapsed contributions from last year that they are just restating. Perhaps the Minister can speak to that as well, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe we are looking at 12 positions that would be established if this were to go through in a number of areas. Again, there are two pieces of this within the supp. One is the other departments being prepared, and getting more involved in staffing up because we felt that there are not the adequate resources from within. For example, in Finance it is in the area of the Bureau of Statistics so that we can be more prepared and have the resources to work on developing the information required for all departments to use. Estimates of cumulative resources impacts, employment, population, income and economic growth so that again all departments can use that information so that they can build their business plans in a more effective manner, and more up-to-date estimates.

Municipal and Community Affairs is to work with the coordination of the permitting process within the municipal boundaries because we know that each community along the way will be impacted. So the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs needs to be more involved and prepared. So that will help out with communities.

Education, Culture and Employment in the area of the Aurora Institute for licensing or for research licensing and activity that is within the areas impacted again by the resource development, and they need those. As well as the heritage resources side of it, so that we could once again be prepared in accounting for some of the rights-of-way and the surrounding areas that would be impacted so that we can collect the right kind of information to ensure that the land is protected, and the cultural aspects of the areas are protected. So that is in there.

Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development; part of this supp is for the environmental protection technical assessment in that area again for the regulatory process. Then much the same with the other area. The second part of this, as the Member had referenced earlier, the section specifically for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is particularly identified for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in establishing the pipeline office. We know as a government, the 15th Assembly knows that there is much work needed to be done and that we have to catch up to this in being prepared and moving forward. So we have started down that path. It was felt initially when the submissions came forward that we needed to have a more coordinated approach, so departments were sent back to begin working together on the approach of how we deal with this. So this is what we see now as the first stage of that being prepared as a government to at least deal with the critical areas that we feel there are shortages in. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Menicoche.

Mr. Chair, no further comments at this time.

Thank you. I've got Mr. Hawkins next.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think at this time I'll just be rather brief. This time it appears that the government is addressing one of my personal and heartfelt concerns of legal aid. So I have to admit I must compliment them in the sense that they are addressing the problem. Of course, we'd like to know that they found these resources internally, but unfortunately that is not the case. So I guess I have to admit my hands are kind of tied in the sense that I'm seeing the action that I much need. In the sense of building community, we've got families at risk. So I will be supporting this as it stands. I would hate to see that get bumped out of this. We have families at risk, and, therefore, they will have my support at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister, do you care to comment?

Thank you. Further general comments? Clause by clause. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to pursue a little bit more of the concerns about the lack of social prominence profile in the pipeline preparation office. I am looking at some correspondence, Mr. Chairman, between the president of the Status of Women Council of the Northwest Territories and the Premier. This is quite recent correspondence. In it the Status of Women Council again flags their concerns over social impacts; where are these concerns being addressed. The Premier, in part of his reply, indicated that the issues raised concerning social impacts will receive a high profile within the Government of the Northwest Territories. I guess my point here, Mr. Chairman, is that I would challenge the government on the lack of profile that it has given pipeline preparation on the social impacts side, especially given that it has been in front of us for years now, Mr. Chairman. Given that we have decided to go into debt in areas such as legal aid and for literacy and language nests, I don't want at all to be seen as being critical of the value of those programs, but an area there, Mr. Chair, is when the government hears sort of sturdy resounding support for a given program such as...I believe several Members of our committee were strong on the loss, through the last budget process, of the language nests. Mr. Hawkins individually pressed on the issue of legal aid, and we see now that those are two issues that our government has chosen to give profile to; in fact, go into debt for. Why then or how is it that we can't see something as significant as the impact in this area, and not take it on? It would be really easy here for the government to take on and say oh, gee, you know the people on the other side really think this is a good program, we'll just go out and take on more debt, which is another aspect of this supp, Mr. Chairman, that I am uncomfortable with. The Ministers take signals from us seemingly as approval to go into new debt, and I sure don't like that. When I speak in support of something or regret that it is not there anymore, that doesn't mean that I am signing a new line of credit that they can just dig us deeper into the hole. If that is the way they are going to operate, then I must insist that they should come back to committee and say look you guys, if you really think this is a good idea, are you prepared to go as far as going into debt for it. Come back and ask us that, please. I feel very uncomfortable with some of the things that are in this supp. As good as they are, they are forcing us into more debt, and I put that forward as a criticism of the way some of these things have been managed.

The lack of profile and prominence on social impacts in the pipeline preparation remains, Mr. Chairman, a significant concern of mine. I haven't heard yet that the Minister or this government has a plan for that. Mr. Roland has indicated, and I am not arguing, that gosh we just don't have the cash to take on these responsibilities, we are still coordinating with those departments. It is pretty flimsy actually, Mr. Chairman. You know we seem to be prepared to go into debt to finance regulatory and paper pushing kinds of jobs, necessary ones, but where is the emphasis on the social side? We don't seem to get it. I guess I would leave it there, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on an annual basis, or as we go through our budget exercise, we build in a supplementary reserve into the business plan to take in unforeseen items that would come forward, and have some flexibility in trying to deal with business of the day as it would come upon us. So in this case, in this budget for 2004-05 we have for operations expenditure a supplementary reserve of $20 million. By approving this budget, part of this supplementary appropriation will take out $8.8 million of that supplementary reserve. So we won't actually be going into debt. Now I share the same concerns as the Member that we are early into our mandate and already taking up almost half of the supplementary reserve, and the message is being sent consistently back to departments coming forward with supplementary reserves that items we feel that should be in the business plan should go back to the business plan process, and a number of them are not being approved on that basis of looking at our budget situation. But to say that we have totally not dealt with the issue of the social side of the scale, on an ongoing basis we are dealing with those things. That is why we have included items such as $2 million for Education, Culture and Employment on the school side of things to make sure that the schools in the North have the resources to have enough teachers because we are feeling some of those impacts. As development happens more families remain in the North, and more children are going to schools. As well as when you have a hot economy, we have to be more competitive in a sense of keeping teachers or healthcare workers and social workers in the North. So that means adjusting our pay ranges accordingly when negotiations do come up. So we are dealing with some of those issues. Now they are round about in a sense of everyday issues, but we feel that is necessary, that we have to put in the cash that is required to maintain an adequate level of service, and we are doing that because we are feeling the impacts of that development already on the social side. We put $950,000 as part of this appropriation for the Department of Health and Social Services that addressed one of the areas of the social agenda, and those were the projects that were started in 2003-2004. The language nests, there is another $877,000 that we initially didn't plan to put in, but because of support from Members of this House, that made it into the supplementary plan. Again, dealing with increased costs of providing healthcare for physicians in the Northwest Territories. So I don't think it is accurate to say that we are not doing anything for the social side. We are in dealing with the day-to-day issues that we are feeling the impacts of that development already in the Northwest Territories, and we will continue to do so, at the same time being prudent with our fiscal situation as we've instructed departments to go back and look internally for what areas they can start saving money, and being prepared for the next business plan cycle. So I agree there is concern around our fiscal situation, especially seeing that our supplementary reserve on the operations side is we are cutting into it by approximately half of it within the first two months after passing a budget. But I continue to urge departments to look internally, as well as put some of the initiatives into the business planning process that we feel are not needed in a critical nature at this point. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.