Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that was a pretty skinny answer. Maybe I will try it again. This Assembly and government went through considerable contortions to get the budgets passed, enable this to happen because we believed in the idea. We wanted to respond to those communities that were having problems getting teachers and nurses on site in our communities. The Minister has told us that a bunch of professionals are using them. That's good. It's great to see them occupied, but has the corporation managed to put together the costs or the availability of these for that target audience? How many of these 42 units are occupied by nurses and teachers? Let's try it that way, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member keeps referring to 42 units. As we all know, the last 20 units were implemented this year. At the time that it was presented to the House and we approved the budget, we made it clear to them that those 20 other units will not be on the ground. I would just like to have the

Member realize that we went through a logistic problem the first time around, and we are going through it again. A lot of these communities are through the road access, and also ensuring that we have to deal with barging. As I said, Mr. Speaker, I don't think we discriminate between professionals in communities. They are professionals that work at the band office, professionals who work at the municipal office. It's not totally for nurses and teachers. This is a program to build capacity in communities and ensure that professional people who do live in these communities now have the ability to rent locally and not have to worry about trying to find accommodation once they get there. We are now providing accommodation in those communities to professionals in all walks of life, not just strictly to nurses and teachers. The communities are requiring these units to provide these programs and services that we ask them to deliver on our behalf. So we can't restrict these to certain professionals. Again, we have seen a major increase in that area. As I stated earlier, 18 of these units are now presently occupied, under phase one, out of 22. So we are almost at 90 percent capacity. That alone should show you that we are providing assistance to those people to keep them in those communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Okay, so the Minister doesn't have information for us or can't go back to really what the original objective was and say that it has been satisfied; the program has changed to accommodate other people. Mr. Speaker, one part of this program was also that the units will not be subsidized and the Housing Corporation has been directed -- I'm reading from the business plan of last year -- to ensure a lease rate that is based on a full cost recovery basis. Can the Minister assure the House that the cost of renting and the sale of some of these units have indeed been at full cost recovery? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the direction that was given by Cabinet when this was taken out. It had to be at full cost recovery and that's exactly how it has been operated. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to pick up where some of my colleagues left off, and I've got questions as well for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation on their track record in terms of seniors' facilities. I'd like to first of all ask the Minister if he can advise us, as a segue into this, Mr. Speaker; we had the opportunity in April to visit the community of Tuktoyaktuk, which has a seniors' facility, and Regular Members were able to go and get a tour of this facility. Mr. Speaker, we couldn't find one senior in the entire facility, and in fact there were apartments there that hadn't been lived in in three years. We'd go in and open the fridge and the fridge would be on full blast, the heat was on full blast and there wasn't a soul living in the whole place except for the caretakers, Mr. Speaker. I'd like the Minister to advise us what the capital costs and the ongoing associated O and M costs are for the seniors' facilities in Deline, Fort Resolution and Tuktoyaktuk. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, a lot of these facilities are built and designed with the Department of Health and Social Services, through the arrangement to provide seniors' facilities in communities, and also in regard to alcohol and drug programs. The department, along with other departments, has done an assessment of all of the facilities that we presently operate with less than 30 percent capacity. We are presently in the process of working with those different agencies.

You touched on an area that was raised in the House earlier in regard to the Deline facility. We have a committee in place, and we're hoping to have that unit up and running by 2006, and have the parties agree on exactly what the use of that facility is. The same thing applies to the facility in Tuk. That facility was constructed as any other seniors' facility throughout the North. It was in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Services to provide seniors' care in communities. But at the facility in Tuk, as you mentioned, we are presently in the process of restricting certain access to half of the facility and allowing that half of the facility to be used for public housing tenants. So we are looking at starting to rent out those facilities and keeping the other half for a seniors' facility, as it has been agreed to. But again, through the review by the departments on the 30 percent occupancy to ensure that we find other uses for that facility.

The Member also mentioned the Somba K'e facility. We're presently working with people in the private sector such as Bosco Homes and other agencies to see if they are interested in acquiring that facility for the intent of that facility, which was a treatment facility. I think because of the restrictions of the agreements that were in place prior to where we are today, where a lot of the agreements we had did not have an opt in or out clause, we're basically stuck with the facility and paying the mortgage and whatnot on these facilities and to carry forward.

So, Mr. Speaker, that's the short of it.

---Laughter

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister what type of meaningful consultation takes place with a community that would

allow a facility built in a community like Tuktoyaktuk to stand vacant for three years, and now we're actually going to try to go back and do something about it? But whose responsibility is it that that facility built with our scarce resources sat empty for three years? I'd like to ask the Minister how much did it cost to build these three facilities, and what has been the ongoing operations and maintenance costs for those three facilities for the past three years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have that detail in regard to the actual operational costs, but I know in regard to Somba K'e we had winterized that facility, which basically shut down last winter. We are in the process now of talking with the band and other corporations, and I know that the facility in Tuk was occupied with a few elders last year, but they are being used. So, Mr. Speaker, I don't have the total operational costs of those facilities, but we are looking at alternative uses for those facilities, and we are trying to occupy them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is a sad thing that pieces of public infrastructure get built in communities, and, again, the Minister didn't answer the question. What type of meaningful consultation takes place in a community that would allow a seniors' facility to be built and nobody living in it for three years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, we do have a budgetary process that has to pass through this House, and it has to be approved in that process. How it gets there is determined by the department and the demands of communities.

In regards to elders' facilities, the population does fluctuate where we do have other alternative uses for facilities. I think because of the capital process, we go through departments, come forward with the capital requirements to this House, and get the capital dollars to construct them. In regard to those facilities, I believe that there was a demand for this facility, and it was passed in this House. At present, we are seeing that there is less use for those facilities because of changing circumstances. The funding that was there in the past, especially a lot of the federal funding, has lapsed, and we have to look at alternative sources of revenues.

So, Mr. Speaker, the capital is approved through this House, and we all have an opportunity to debate it in the House. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I was going to speak on the core housing need in the Tlicho region, and also for the North, since the topic happens to be the Housing Corp.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, it's a real shocker that in this day and age there are many families in the Tlicho region, and I'm sure the rest of the Northwest Territories, that still get their water from the lake, and have outhouses in their backyards. Mr. Speaker, many of the residents have trouble accessing programs and services of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Can the Minister tell this Assembly how NWT residents living in horrendous conditions, reminiscent of the Third World, can access the programs and services provided through the NWT Housing Corporation? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as you know, we have concluded different needs surveys. We have been able to pinpoint a lot of these areas where we do have very low standards in regard to living conditions where people live. I think that whole thrust behind the reports that have come forward is we have identified some 20 communities that are in core need, and I think through those needs surveys we are able to identify those communities that need the resources. As a department, we are making sure that all the resources that we do have are going to those communities to get down those core needs numbers to ensure we bring people's living standards up to a certain level.

Again, a lot of these programs are based on our capital budget. The $4 million that was addressed in this House in regard to the Northern Strategy is going to those 14 communities who are in that core needs category. As a government, we are limited on our resources, and I am working in conjunction with the federal Minister in regard to the $1.6 billion for housing. A lot of the emphasis for that money is going to be focused on aboriginal communities. I think that's where the problem lies, is in those aboriginal communities.

Again, Mr. Speaker, we are working through our needs surveys, identifying the federal resources that are out there, and identifying those communities that we have identified to ensure we bring down those core needs so we can make a difference. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.