Thank you Mr. Dent. Supplementary question, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is very superficial. I just don't know how the Minister can say that, given the numbers that are before him. Anyway, let's move on to the fact that he said that the only extra cost for keeping them here in Yellowknife is the cost of food because the remand unit here in Yellowknife is going to be staffed anyway.

I don't know if the Minister is familiar with the layout of the SMCC in Hay River, but they have a central control area where the remand inmates are accommodated. That remand control area is staffed seven days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. It will continue the operation and have a staff person in there regardless of whether the inmates are there or not. So the same argument can be made for Hay River. Is that not true? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Even if the control centre is staffed, the overall staff complement will be able to be reduced by 5.5 at SMCC, if we do not have to have staff dedicated to the remand facility. As a result of an inquest some time ago, that has been the case. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, is it not true that the person in that central control area of that area where the remand inmates stay takes care of inmates who are there for medical holding, administrative solitary confinement, disciplinary solitary confinement, suicide watch and remand? Are there, in fact, five different types of inmates that could be in that area which requires that staff to be there? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct that there are a number of different reasons that inmates could be placed in that area. The issue of having to have somebody there 24-7 is one that isn't normally the case or wouldn't normally be the case. Unless somebody is on a suicide watch, you don't have to have somebody there all the time. There are cameras in place. If it becomes an issue, if a certain inmate was repeatedly going to that situation, then we would have to take a look at transferring the inmate to the North Slave Correctional Centre where the facilities are set up for that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, is it not true that there is always a corrections officer in the control area where remanded prisoners would be held in custody? Is it not true that there is always staff in that area every day? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I believe that the control centre is staffed all of the time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

I am struggling to understand exactly what the Member is proposing and what he would define by proof. I think we are doing a lot of work and a lot of research to understand the herd dynamics. There have been changes in how we have agreed to describe various herds, as the Member has pointed out. Our ability to monitor the herd over time, we believe, is improving. Technology is improving.

When you look back at past years' data and go back some time, I would certainly think that it would be difficult to prove beyond a doubt that we know with any certainty the exact accurate numbers of those animals. We are doing the best we can today to understand the herd, to monitor and measure the herd. We are working with the users of the resource. We are working with those who have a mandate for wildlife, specifically caribou management, and should we propose any changes to the allowable amount of the harvest, then we will sit down and work with all affected stakeholders. That includes outfitters. I hope this goes some measure toward alleviating some of the concerns that the Member is bringing forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Knowing the management plan, I agree that caribou should be managed, but it is hard to manage one herd not knowing what is happening with the other herds. I would like to ask the Minister if he knows that the new range maps of the Bathurst caribou put out by his own department are actually 20 percent smaller today than they were five or six years ago. In fact, any caribou taken from here to the Arctic Coast is deemed a Bathurst caribou even though the ranges overlap. The management plan is misleading people. I would like to see it shelved. I am asking the Minister if he will shelve that plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I won't. I think if you look at the membership of the planning committee and acknowledge that the good work of these groups -- DIAND, ourselves, Dogrib Treaty 11, Yellowknives Dene, North Slave M‚tis Alliance, Lutselk'e Dene First Nation, Kitikmeot Inuit Association, Kitikmeot Hunters' and Trappers' Association, Nunavut Wildlife Management Board, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc. Mr. Speaker, to suggest that we shelve this plan because we think that the work these folks have done is not valid, I would suggest, would be a slap in the face to those who have management responsibility for caribou.

There have been a number of proposed suggestions should we determine that the herd is, in fact, in decline or is low. It is very important for us to understand and monitor the herd to know if this is just a regular fluctuation over time. I don't think we know that with any certainty, but we are proposing to sit down and speak to other stakeholders who weren't on this committee; that includes outfitters. But for me to throw away the good work that these people have done, I think, would be an insult. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I certainly wouldn't want to make it look like I was disrespecting the work that has gone into this report. I think there is a lot of good work in this, but I think there is a heck of a lot more that can be done. Again, I would like the Minister to take a look at putting this away until such a time as the plan can be expanded to include the other herds. Really, with just a management plan for the Bathurst caribou, you don't know really what you are dealing with until you do all of the herds together. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have said, because this management plan for all of the caribou in the Northwest Territories is a very important task, we have added some additional resources this year, and just because it is a difficult task, I don't think that makes it one that we are justified in ignoring. I think we have a legal responsibility. We intend to carry that out. I would like to make sure that the Member knows that this plan is a recommendation to government and other parties of the planning agreement. It is currently being reviewed by these parties. The committee has asked us to provide some feedback and recommendations by mid-April, but they intend and have recommended that a forum be held in May of 2005 to discuss comments and feedback received on the recommendations in this report.

It is our intention to post it on the web site, to solicit input and then have a discussion around the suggestions that have been made. We are not going to unilaterally impose any of these measures without full discussion and more information being shared. But to ignore the work, to shelve it, to abandon it, I don't think is prudent or appropriate. Thank you.