Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I just wanted to ask if the Minister, I don't think he is going to answer yes to this, but I have to ask him anyway, are we replicating anything in having the Power Corporation and what they are doing with hydro and what is ITI doing with hydro and any of the work that is done in ENR? Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. We don't believe we are. Obviously the Power Corporation has been tasked with working to develop partnerships around hydro initiatives.

The broader energy policy and the decisions about where we focus our resources and the kinds of policy lines for this government to take, will be developed through the Department of ITI. That policy work will happen and will be developed by the energy policy unit and will come up for Cabinet discussion and debate. Then we will provide direction to our vehicle, essentially the Power Corporation, to undertake some of these activities.

What you are seeing now, is a void in terms of policy work and, absent that, we have the Power Corporation expected to carry these activities out, without a broader discussion in terms of overall energy policy. I think that is the piece that is missing that we are trying to address here.

I do not believe that there is duplication and as I have said, the focus on ENR will really be on demand side conservation issues. Some of the programs we have funded in past, heat pump studies, street light conversions, green building development plans, really conservation-type issues, those will continue to be funded through ENR. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I raised some concern with this last year as well, but now that the two new departments are coming on board here, we are further splintering what resources we have and what resources we are dedicating to energy to energy management and the whole gamut that that is. I would have rather seen the energy side of things kept together, so there is more cohesiveness and more of a direction or focus on what its mandate is. Where it is going. I think one would feed off the other, in my mind, and I don't know, again why exactly they were split up like they were. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Our feeling is that if you think about oil and gas development and supply side issues and our support around those initiatives, they are much different than some of the conservation issues that we have been talking about, and we think they can be adequately differentiated and think they are better headed up by the two separate departments.

We have talked in the past and had a lot of discussion through the last budget, and I know the Member made a number of points about the Arctic Energy Alliance, there was some discussion, questioning of the efficiency of that organization. We believe that it also plays a role. We are unable, in many cases, to partner with various different agencies without a vehicle like the Arctic Energy Alliance. It is able to lever additional resources from federal government, much the same way that the CMHC funding flows to the Housing Corporation, a corporation of this government with our various federal programs that are more adequately partnered with the Arctic Energy Alliance.

We think there is a purpose and certainly a justification, for continuing to fund that agency. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Next on the list I have Mr. Zoe. General comments.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Before I ask the Minister a question, I just want to say, for the record, I echo the comments that you made yesterday, Madam Chairperson.

You eloquently spoke of this department. I echo the same comments. I would just like to say, Madam Chairperson, that the move to create this new department is essential right now. It is needed. There is a lot of development going on and increasing development going on here in the Territories, and we need a body like this to make sure that our environment and natural resources are protected.

Madam Chairperson, I just wanted to ask the Minister, in regard to the comments that he made in his opening statement yesterday. The department is going to be establishing environmental protection officers in Inuvik and the North Slave area. I am interested more in the North Slave area. Where is that position going to be located? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The position in North Slave will cover both a number of communities and the surrounding area. The communities to be covered are: Yellowknife, Detah, Ndilo and the four Dogrib communities and the position is located in Yellowknife. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Minister also indicated that the government's strategic plan also speaks of placing a high value on wildlife. They are going to be doing a number of initiatives, and one particularly that is mentioned in the budget is the Bathurst Caribou Monitoring Program.

I understand that the elders and community members are all going to be involved for their input. I realize that the government, or that the working group, has also tabled the management plan. A lot of people still have a lot of concerns pertaining to that report which has been in the works for at least four, or more than four years maybe. The numbers for that particular herd don't jibe with a lot of people. I am just wondering how the biologists, or the people that create these numbers, determine that.

I know it is difficult because that whole area where the migration occurs, there are the four different herds or eight different herds that were mentioned in that report. They all overlap, so the number that is quoted in that report does not jibe with a lot of people, even myself. I think my colleague from Tu Nedhe mentioned that in his Member's statement today. I think that the whole area of the numbers has to be revisited. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I would agree with the Member that we certainly need to do more research, and there are some new initiatives proposed and new money requested in order to better understand the Bathurst herd.

I think the Member makes a very good point that it is both difficult to measure the size of the herd, but our main technique, I believe, if I understand the methodology, is to do calving ground surveys. We do know that the individual herds go back to specific calving grounds. As I mentioned the other day in the House, the Bathurst herd is currently calving west of Bathurst Inlet. From there we have to make a number of assumptions. As the Member has indicated, the various herds do intermingle and we are only best able to count them at the calving grounds.

We have done a number of things in the past. I think it is important to note that we take both the science-based approach to monitoring caribou herds, the populations and

the numbers, including things like collaring, but we also think it is very important to work with communities and elders who have seen fluctuations, who have seen increases and decreases over their lives in the strength of various herds.

Traditional knowledge is very important to the department and it is these two facets that we focus on. There are challenges in terms of measures, if a herd is either in decline or the numbers are determined to be low. What I would say is that we will meet with all users of the resource and all stakeholders to understand what the most effective mitigation measures might be, before we would do anything. We are not going to race out and impose some restrictions on hunting without understanding whether or not they can, in the end, be effective.

We are working very hard. We need to continue to fund this research because it is critical to people of the Northwest Territories that we adequately manage this resource, so that it is sustainable and it is there for generations to come. A key component to that is working with all of the stakeholders. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we believe there are almost in the neighbourhood of 700 known contaminated sites in the Northwest Territories. Potentially there are sites that we don't know about. This is what makes our devolution negotiations very critical and important to do right. We don't want to be strapped with contaminated sites from the past that we were unaware of and then be on the hook for the cleanup of those sites. So that is one of the principles that we're operating under when we negotiate with the federal government.

Cleanup of many of these sites ends up being the responsibility of the federal government. There are a number of different federal agencies that their mandates are interwoven, be it CEAA, DFO or DIAND, depending on the nature of the problem. I would say that we're willing to work with any community that believes that they've spotted an environmental situation for cleanup and help them better understand the jurisdiction and roles of the federal agencies responsible and then help them in pursuing funding from those agencies to see these sites cleaned up. I think it's in the best interests of the federal government to be very forthright in dealing with people and acknowledging their responsibilities and moving forward to clean them up as well.

We will certainly champion that cause and work with communities who believe that there are sites that need to be cleaned up and vigorously pursue funding from the federal government to do so. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Next on the list I have Mr. Pokiak. General comments.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just three quick general comments with regard to the Member's opening statement. The first one I'd like to ask the Minister, Madam Chair, is with regard to the Wildlife Act. I know that presently the game council is working diligently with the department to try to comply with the implementation of IFA. How far has this dialogue been going on and will the changes reflect pretty quickly in this new act? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Bell.

Obviously, Madam Chair, we have an obligation to ensure that the new Wildlife Act respects the provisions in land claims, including those laid out in the IFA. We are working with the Inuvialuit Game Council very closely to ensure that what we're proposing meets that test. We will continue to do so and, as I've indicated earlier, this has taken more time than we would have liked, but we believe it's important to do an adequate and thorough job and ensure that we have the support of all the land claim organizations. To date, through our work with IGC and the YMAC, we believe we're going to have a much improved Wildlife Act and continue to pursue this. As I indicated yesterday, we believe that in the fall of 2006 we'll be ready to introduce legislation in this House that will reflect all of the input from IGC and YMAC. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Pokiak.