Does committee agree that concludes the consideration of Environment and Natural Resources main estimates?

Thank you, Mr. Bell, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.

Does committee agree we will proceed now with Education, Culture and Employment?

I will ask Mr. Dent, Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, if he would please provide his opening remarks on Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The 2005-2006 Main Estimates we bring forward today for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment total over $245 million. Priorities include addressing additional requirements for kindergarten to Grade 12 student assessment, new and expanded high school curriculum, enhanced support to the arts, and building capacity to support resource development activities across the NWT.

The main estimates also include ongoing funding for language nests and Aurora College's Baccalaureate Degree Nursing Program. Funding for these activities were initially approved during the 2004-05 fiscal year. In other areas, it responds to the government's need to reduce spending. Most significantly, the improved economic status of many northerners has allowed the government to decrease the budgeted requirements for income security.

The net effect of these changes is a one percent decrease in the department's main estimates over what was budgeted last year. I would like to highlight a few key activities of the department.

First, within the education and culture activity of the department, we propose to spend $136.1 million on programs and services to residents of the NWT. Spending in this area includes monies for early childhood development programs, schools, as well as cultural and heritage programs.

For 2005-06, we plan to spend $4.8 million on early childhood development activities. These activities will add to the early learning provided at home to help provide children with a healthy start in life and give them the learning tools they need to succeed in school and beyond.

As Members are aware, in 2004-05 the department received supplementary funding for language nests. The 2005-2006 Main Estimates include $727,000 to continue this initiative.

On October 5, 2004, the Government of Canada committed to develop a national system of regulated early learning and childcare programs. Canada has suggested that programming should be based on principles of

quality, universality, accessibility and development. The federal government's plan supports the department's current direction and activities in the early childhood development sector. By linking the use of available federal funding and GNWT monies, we can build a stronger system of early childhood programs.

Over the past decade, we have made steady progress in strengthening the school system. Increased access to high school programs in NWT communities has resulted in more aboriginal graduates from smaller communities. We know the link between educational achievement and employment is very high. We must ensure student success continues to improve.

For the 2005-06 fiscal year, the department is budgeting nearly $125 million to support our schools. Most of this money will go directly to education authorities at the regional and community level.

• • The main estimates for the new fiscal year include an additional $742,000 to assist educators in monitoring and assessing student achievement. This will cover the costs of implementing the Alberta achievement tests at grades 3, 6 and 9, as well as the costs for the use of Grade 12 exams.
• • As well, $480,000 will be spent to develop new high school courses to prepare students for trades and other skilled occupations. These courses will be in addition to the existing courses that prepare students for post-secondary opportunities. The introduction of new high school English language arts and science curricula, under the western and northern Canada protocol, is also budgeted for in 2005-06.

The introduction of the aboriginal language and cultural-based education directive in September 2004 reaffirmed our commitment to the languages and cultures of aboriginal people in the NWT. The directive promotes the integration of language and culture throughout K to 12 programs as a basis for culturally appropriate learning and provides direction to education authorities with respect to the $6.7 million contributed annually to support aboriginal language and culture programs.

This government is also committed to supporting students who choose to be educated in the French language.

• • During 2005-06 the department plans to spend $1.8 million on French first language education.
• • The $242,000 received in supplementary funding during 2004-05 for the administration of the Commission Scolaire Francophone de Division has been added to this budget.
• • Canadian Heritage is also expected to continue its support for French language instruction in NWT schools with an $868,000 contribution.

During 2005-06 we will continue to follow up on recommendations made in the last Assembly regarding official languages. We have made considerable progress during the past year with the establishment of the language boards, adjustments to school funding and increased coordination of efforts. We will continue this process with the establishment of an official languages division reporting to the deputy minister. This division will become a single point of contact and strengthen the government's activities associated with official languages.

We propose to spend $2.2 million on official languages activities in fiscal year 2005-06. Most of this funding will be used to support the plans and activities of the official languages communities. As well, we are currently working with the language communities to prepare for a negotiation with the Government of Canada to renew the Cooperation Agreement on French and Aboriginal Languages. The current agreement is expiring at the end of March and we have contacted Canada with the intention of initiating negotiations in the immediate future.

A strong and vibrant arts sector is integral to the economic, social and cultural wellbeing of the residents of the NWT. During the current fiscal year, Education, Culture and Employment, through the NWT Arts Council, provided funds for 62 projects to enhance the arts across the NWT. Another 14 projects were funded under the Performing Arts Contribution Program. In 2005-06, the department plans to increase funding to this important sector by $75,000. This amount will be added to the $50,000 reallocated to the arts in 2004-05, bringing the total increase to the Arts Council annual budget to $265,000 over the last three years.

As land activity associated with the Mackenzie Valley pipeline and other resource development escalates, it is critical that we act to protect and preserve heritage sites and resources in the NWT. The 2005-06 Main Estimates includes $200,000 for the additional staff and resources required to meet our obligations for heritage resource management under the Historical Resources Act.

Within the advanced education and careers activity, the department proposes to spend $41 million. Programs and services in this area provide northerners with access to career development, skills training and post-secondary education needed to successfully participate in our expanding economy.

The GNWT, the Government of Canada, aboriginal governments, Aurora College and industry are working together to help northerners access the training required to qualify for careers in our growing economy. Last year, a major collaborative effort was announced. The four-year Aboriginal Skills and Employment Partnership, or ASEP, projects in support of the oil and gas sector and the mining sector will train nearly 800 northerners for jobs in these two important sectors. The federal government contributed nearly $24.8 million to these efforts while the GNWT, aboriginal governments and industry pledged $28.4 million of in-kind contributions and support from existing budgets.

To support this initiative, the department proposes to fund $3.8 million from its existing program to support ASEP projects. As well, it will fund an ASEP coordinator position in 2005-06 to work closely with its partners to plan and deliver critical training under the ASEP projects.

The rapid expansion of resource development in the NWT has increased the demand for certified tradespersons. While the number of NWT apprentices has increased by nearly 20 percent over the past four years, we still need more trained northern tradespersons. With this goal in mind, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will spend $480,000 more of its training budget on apprenticeship activities in the 2005-06 year.

The 2005-2006 Main Estimates proposes to consolidate labour functions currently located in the Department of Justice with the employment functions located in Education, Culture and Employment. This will increase the coordination of labour and employment activities to provide better support to northern workers. Funding for labour functions have been restated within the department budget and operational responsibility will be transferred on April 1st.

During the next year, we plan to support our northern college system with an expenditure of $26.4 million. This year's main estimates include an ongoing $662,000 investment to implement a bachelor's degree program for nurses. This will help to ensure that we continue to increase the supply of northern trained nurses to serve in our communities. A further $110,000 is being added to the college's budget to support the Aurora Research Institute's responsibilities for the licensing of research activities. Overall research related to the proposed Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline project has increased demands on the licensing processes.

Madam Chair, within the new income security activity, the department proposes to spend $61.4 million during fiscal year 2005-06. Spending in this area includes monies for the Student Financial Assistant Program, Income Support and public housing subsidy programs.

In our government's strategic plan, we stated that improving our income security system is critical. With limited resources, we need to makes sure those in the greatest need receive support and we must work to support the self-reliance of all northerners.

In 2005-06, we will introduce a consistent policy framework for the GNWT's income security programs and work closely with the NWT Housing Corporation to consolidate the $31 million currently expended for public housing subsidies within the department's budget. This action is the beginning of a process that can be expected to take a few years but should result in a simplified system that is easier to understand and is targeted to support those in greatest need.

As part of the overall GNWT efforts to restrain spending, the department plans to make some changes to current programs. Changes include the reduction of the programs to pay special additional post-secondary remissible loans to students in health and social work programs. This change will reduce costs by about $334,000 annually in the long term and will only be applied to remissible loans received beginning in the 2005-06 fiscal year. It is important to note students in these programs will continue to receive all other benefits of the Student Financial Assistance Program.

Other income support reductions shown in this budget reflect lower expenditure requirements resulting from the buoyant NWT economy. The current level of support provided to clients will not be reduced.

Finally, the departmental business plan is supported by a request for continued investment in suitable education facilities over the plan period. With more than 65 educational facilities across the NWT, a number of which are nearing the end of their operational life, it is not surprising that we will need to make significant investments in educational facilities, even in this period of fiscal restraint.

Madam Chair, we are proposing to spend $80 million over the next three years on capital infrastructure. Most of this is for schools in Tulita, Inuvik, Fort Good Hope, Gameti, Yellowknife and Ndilo. These projects will address some of the most pressing needs and are part of a long-term plan to modernize our educational facilities. Thank you. That concludes my opening comments.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Now for the Standing Committee on Social Programs review of the main estimates on Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Pokiak, please proceed.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs met with the Minister and his officials on January 17, 2005, to review the draft main estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. The committee made note of $245.003 million in spending related to operations and $18.19 million to be spent on capital projects.

Major changes since the last year's main estimates are related to the transfer of funding for social housing subsidies from the NWT Housing Corporation in the amount of $30.95 million and $610,000 related to the transfer of labour programs from the Department of Justice.

A wide-ranging discussion was held on a number of issues, which are summarized in this report.

Reform To Income Security Programs

One of the major government initiatives underway in this Assembly is the reform of income security programs. As it stands right now, there are 17 income security programs, administered by seven separate departments who use four different delivery systems. It is obvious that there needs to be a rationalization of these programs and delivery systems to ensure fairness, equity and ease of access for those people who require income security programs.

This process is just beginning, and as such the committee is reluctant to comment until such time as the department has had time to formulate a course of action, Madam Chair. Comments on the work accomplished thus far and suggestions on possible future directions have been forwarded to the Minister under separate cover.

The committee looks forward to working with the Minister over the life of this Assembly to overhaul income security programs and delivery mechanisms to ensure these programs meet the needs of northerners and are delivered in a fair and equitable manner.

Youth Employment, Apprenticeship And Training On-The-Job Programs

Members of the committee are disappointed that the Youth Employment Program, which provided subsidies to employers to hire young people to give them work experience, has been reduced by $480,000 over what was available in 2004-05. This means there is only $300,000 left to subsidize employers willing to give youth work experience.

In light of the fact that the Northwest Territories economy is outperforming every other jurisdiction in Canada, the committee is forced to admit there is not as much need for

a targeted program designed to give young people their first job experiences. However, there is a hidden cost to eliminating the Youth Employment Program in that aboriginal organizations and community government will lose access to this source of funding to hire people to deliver programming and services.

This is where committee's concerns lay and where discussion during the main estimates review on whether or not to reinstate full funding to the Youth Employment Program will focus.

Mr. Chair, Members were pleased to see that the Training on the Job, TOJ, and Apprenticeship Training on the Job, ATOJ, were both spared cuts though this latest round of government belt-tightening. It should be noted that these two programs are different in that they actually ensure that a person has marketable skills in a trade or occupation upon completion of a training program. This program provides a subsidy to employers to hire trainees or apprenticeships and recognizes there is a cost to training skilled employees.

With the increased need for trades people and other skilled employees as a result of increased activity in the non-renewable resource sector, committee cannot condone or support the erosion of training programs for northerners that can lead to long-term meaningful employment.

Committee was pleased to note that an additional $480,000 was added to the Apprenticeship Training on the Job Program as a result of our discussion with the Minister.

The Northwest Territories has the best apprenticeship program in Canada, from both the employers' and apprentices' perspectives. The standing committee is pleased that this statement will remain true for 2005-06.

Social Worker Program At Aurora College

Members of the standing committee are concerned with the difficulties Aurora College has had in attracting students to the Social Work Program. There seems to be a lack of understanding as to the root cause of the lack of uptake by students.

There were only six applicants for the first year of the Social Work Program last year, despite Aurora College heavily advertising the program prior to the start of the 2004-05 academic year. It makes no economic sense to run a program with only six students.

The committee recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and Aurora College must, in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Services and the territorial Association of Social Workers, be more proactive in trying to figure out why the Social Work Program is not operating at capacity.

The need and ability of the health and social services system to hire all graduates clearly exists. We need to address the problem and move on.

Student Residence At Aurora College In Inuvik

The committee has been made aware of the need for a dedicated singles' student residence in Inuvik. The current model of modified townhouses in the Blueberry Patch, with locks on the individual bedroom doors, is not acceptable as a long-term solution.

Members of the committee have been told of students who have dropped out of school because of problems with the roommates with whom they were put in the Blueberry Patch townhouses, or because of the lack of available singles' housing in Inuvik.

The situation for singles accommodations, or for any accommodations for that matter, will only get worse in Inuvik as pipeline development and oil and gas exploration continues.

The committee endorses single student housing for the Inuvik college campus and would be interested in examining the business case outlining the need and costs of such a facility.

Student Success Centres At Aurora College Campuses

As part of the targeted cost-reduction exercise, Aurora College was expected to bear its share of the cuts. The decision was made by the college to eliminate the funding associated with the Student Success Centres at each of the three campuses of Aurora College. The college believed this cut would have the least impact on the programs and services that the college offers.

The Members see the need for the Student Success Centres as the support they offer students can mean the difference between success and failure.

Considering the college's total budget of approximately $25 million and the reduction of $150,000 that will be achieved by closing the centres, Members see no reason that other cost efficiencies could not be realized over the course of the year that will allow the college to continue funding the Student Success Centres.

Aurora College is strongly encouraged to fund the Student Success Centres from within their existing expropriation. Mr. Chair, with your permission, I would like to turn it over to Mr. Braden. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Braden.

Volume Of Income Support Cases In Yellowknife

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To continue on with the report of the Standing Committee on Social Programs in the area of the volume of income support cases in Yellowknife.

The majority of MLAs' time working on constituency issues is spent in helping people access programs like Income Support. Members have heard of delays in accessing income support in Yellowknife because of the workload in the Yellowknife income support office.

In discussions with the Minister, it became apparent that it was not a matter of an increased number of persons applying for income support, but rather a matter of the complexity of the cases of the persons applying for income support.

The more complex the case, the more time an income support worker must spend in dealing with the file. This makes sense to Members, given Yellowknife's tendency

to be a magnet community for NWT residents with health or social problems.

The Yellowknife income support office is presently conducting a review of its operations, and the standing committee would appreciate being made aware of its findings and recommendations prior to consideration of the business plans in September of 2005.

Aurora College Lease At The Northern United Place In Yellowknife

With the lease set to expire in August of 2007, there is a need to determine the adequacy of the Northern United Place as the home of Aurora College in Yellowknife. The department is presently reviewing its options and will have a report on Aurora College operations in Yellowknife ready in the spring of 2005.

Members of the committee would appreciate being briefed on this report when it is available.

The committee also believes that it is time to examine the role of Aurora College in northern society and hopes that the strategic planning exercise that is underway will take this into consideration.

Committee members look forward to further discussions on future directions of the Aurora College.

Teacher Education Program (TEP) Hiring

Members of the committee have heard complaints from constituents who have graduated from the TEP program or from the University of Saskatchewan and have been unable to secure meaningful employment as teachers upon their return to the Northwest Territories.

Committee members are aware that some education authorities refuse to consider hiring any graduates from the TEP program, and that other school boards have hired southern students straight out of university over graduates of the TEP program and the University of Saskatchewan.

This raises questions of whether there is a bias against graduates of our TEP program and whether the program is adequate.

Members understand that education authorities and boards have some measure of autonomy in deciding which teachers they should hire, but strongly believe that this "autonomy" must be tempered by adherence to their funding partner's policies and procedures.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs would welcome further information from graduates of the Teacher Education Program on their successes and failures in getting a teaching position.

The committee will also be following up with the department and the district and local education authorities, including the Yellowknife boards, to try to determine whether there are any systemic barriers to hiring the graduates of the Teacher Education Program to teach and to hopefully find some sort of resolution.

We strongly encourage all education authorities in the NWT to hire graduates of the TEP program to ensure that northerners are teaching northerners and to reduce teacher turnover.

Metis And The University College Entrance Program (UCEP)

Members of the standing committee remain concerned that Metis are not eligible for funding under this program. It is understood by the committee that this is a federal program administered by the GNWT on their behalf and that it is the federal government that determines the eligibility requirements.

The committee agrees that returning the program to the federal government is not a viable option, as it is doubtful that the program would continue without the GNWT's participation. At least in its present form, some treaty beneficiaries have access and can benefit from the program. It should be noted that the present funding is insufficient to meet the demand from qualified applicants.

Metis rights have been recognized in the Northwest Territories, and the federal government has also acknowledged their rights. What the federal government seems reluctant to do is acknowledge that Metis people should be eligible for the same or similar programs as treaty Indians.

The Premier and all government Ministers are encouraged to raise this issue with all of their federal counterparts to ensure that Metis aboriginal rights are enhanced rather than ignored.

Student Financial Assistance Remission Rates

The Standing Committee on Social Programs noted that the department has shown a steady increase in the amount of money booked for student loans that are forgiven.

This is a good news story as it means more northerners are returning or choosing to stay in the North once they have completed their post-secondary studies.

The committee will be watching to see if the department's projections bear out.

Full-Time Kindergarten In The Northwest Territories

There is more and more evidence that children enrolled in quality early childhood education programs do better in their future schooling. Those education authorities that have decided to fund full-time kindergarten out of their existing appropriation, have shown marked improvement in their students' academic performance in future years.

The committee supports this approach and believes it would be a strategic investment on the part of this government to fund educational authorities to deliver full-time kindergarten.

The Minister also supports this approach and is directing work on developing programming standards for a full-time kindergarten program.

Members look forward to reviewing the new goals and expectations that would be attached to a full-time kindergarten program and hope to see it included in the 2006-2007 Business Plan.

Western Arctic Leadership Program (WALP)

Members were pleased to note that WALP survived the cost-cutting exercise. The majority of committee

members believe the program provides a valuable outlet for promising students to reach beyond the opportunities available to them through grade extensions in our smaller communities.

It is important to note that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is not responsible for the delivery or operation of the Western Arctic Leadership Program. In fact, it is run by an independent society, based in Fort Smith, and operates a supervised residence for students attending PW Kaeser School. There are several other departments and private industry partners that provide funding or services in kind to ensure the continued viability of the program.

The committee will continue to advocate for the Western Arctic Leadership Program's core funding from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to remain the same but notes it has little influence on the decisions made by other departments or industry partners.

Day Care In The Northwest Territories

Every community in the Northwest Territories has issues with the quality, quantity or availability of day care. In smaller communities, there is need for day care programs that will allow parents to take advantage of resource development employment opportunities. Single parents cannot contemplate taking a job if there is no quality day care available they can trust.

Mr. Chairman, the fly-in/fly-out nature of some employment and shift work has created a need for 24-hour day care in some of our larger centres. The level of pay that can be offered to childcare workers and early childhood educational specialists often pales when compared to the money that is being paid in other sectors of our economy. Consequently, the retention of quality staff is an issue affecting the viability of many day care centres across the NWT.

Members understand that there is an internal review of our day care programming in the Northwest Territories presently underway. This is important given the developments on the federal front, and Members look forward to being kept apprised of the results of the review.

There has been much made in recent weeks of the increased federal funding that will be available for day cares in 2005-06. When $5 billion over five years is spread out over an entire country, the likelihood the Northwest Territories will receive enough funding to meet our immediate day care needs is unlikely if it is based on any per-capita formula.

The Minister is strongly encouraged to work with his northern counterparts and the Minister from Prince Edward Island to ensure there is base funding on top of any per-capita formula. This is the only way any federal funding will make a difference in any of the smaller Canadian jurisdictions.

Mr. Chairman, I have two short items remaining in the committee's report.

Labour Standards Board And Enforcement

As part of the 15th Assembly's vision for the future, the issue of a stand-alone Department of Labour was examined.

At this time, the committee agrees with the government's assessment there is insufficient authority and activity to justify the formation of a stand-alone department.

However, the Members did support the transfer of the Labour Standards Board and enforcement functions from the Department of Justice to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment as a good interim step. It is important to note that no other Canadian jurisdiction had placed responsibility for labour in the Department of Justice. Moving departments does remove any perceived conflict in which the Department of Justice could find itself.

Infrastructure Replacement

The committee made note of this government's aggressive plan to replace or renovate aging infrastructure within the NWT. The department has targeted those schools that have outlived their usefulness. There is little choice but to make these crucial investments in replacing these aging schools now.

Over the next three years, this department alone will spend some $80 million on capital investment for schools in Tulita, Inuvik, Fort Good Hope, Gameti, Yellowknife and Ndilo. This level of investment is exceeded only by the Department of Transportation's plan to invest $140 million.

Mr. Chairman, that ends the committee report on the Department of ECE.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. I would now like to ask Minister Dent if he would like to bring in some witnesses.

Yes, please, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Dent. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you please escort in the witnesses? Does committee agree?

Thank you, Sergeant-at-Arms. Mr. Dent, would you please introduce your witnesses, for the record?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me I have deputy minister, Mr. Mark Cleveland; and, Paul Devitt, director of management services for the department.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, Mr. Devitt. Welcome, Mr. Cleveland. I will now go to general comments on the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. I have Mrs. Groenewegen and then Mr. Hawkins. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Every time it's my turn to make general comments, the Premier says detail.

---Laughter

I think I am becoming too sensitive. Mr. Chairman, when we talk about Education, Culture and Employment, I understand that it covers a very broad range of topics, programs and services. This is quite a comprehensive department in terms of the number of things it covers. But, Mr. Chairman, I want to narrow some of my general comments down to education and how we educate our

children here in the North. Maybe it wouldn't be fair to say we are in a rut, but there is something about our education system that I have been thinking about and I have heard some commentaries on not so long ago on CBC. Maybe not everybody will agree with me on this subject, but I think when we think about the success of our children in school, we need to change the way we do things. For one thing, I think there is too much emphasis in our school system put on homework. I think we are trying to turn parents into teachers and sometimes teachers into parents and social conveners. I think we need to, as a system, and I don't know how much the Minister can bring to bear in terms of the way we go about educating our children, but there is so much pressure on kids these days in many areas and not the least of which is to succeed in school. I would like to see an education system where everybody puts in a good solid day's work, 8:30 to 5:00, if necessary, but I don't think kids should have to go home in young grades or even in older grades with a great big stack of books and homework.

Most people work a regular day, why should kids go to school and then have to go home and work at night as well? By assigning these volumes of homework, you don't only assign the kids to work in the evening, you also dictate the schedule of the parents. Again, there are a lot of stresses these days. Maybe they don't want to spend their evening doing homework.

I think that we would take a lot of pressure off of students and families if we could get the work done during the day. Get the education done and if the kids need to learn how to study on their own independently in some fashion, have some kind of a study program that takes place between 3:30 and 5:00. People say maybe the school day should end at 3:30, well maybe in some places it should, but there is another complicating factor for parents. School gets out at 3:30. How many parents get off at 3:30 if they are working parents? Parents get off at 5:00. Why not have the school day coincide when parents are finished work? Why not do the homework between 3:30 and 5:00 instead of sending it home and expecting the parents to grind on the kids all evening to get their homework done? Anyway, I have some issues about homework.

---Laughter

In fairness to the teachers though, I don't think teachers should have homework either. I really don't. I think teachers should put in a day like any other kind of employment that maybe starts at 8:30 and ends at 5:00, but they shouldn't have to take home homework either.

I don't know how exactly to arrange this. I know there is preparation time required and marking and things to do, but I think teachers should be paid and they should be paid well but they should be able to confine a day's work and not have to be doing homework.

I think we are in a rut. We put a lot of emphasis on take-home assignments. The other thing it does is it disadvantages some children, Mr. Chairman. We expect that parents are all equally capable of helping their children with their homework or having the discipline to make sure their children are disciplined to do their homework. That puts some kids at a distinct disadvantage. Some homes are single parent homes or maybe their home is where there are a lot of children and they don't get the kind of one-on-one or the kind of attention they need to help with their homework. We are assuming that when they send them off at the end of school day with their books under, that everybody is going to get the same attention. That's not necessarily true. I also think we discriminate against children whose parents are uneducated. Did you ever notice that teachers' kids do really, really well in school?

I am telling you myself, personally, I don't consider myself uneducated, but there is stuff that my kids bring home for homework and I couldn't help them if I had to because I wouldn't know how to do it. I think that we have too much emphasis on what kids are expected to do independently and away from the classroom and not enough focus on getting the basic training in during the school day and in the classroom. I think we could do a lot less socializing at school and a lot more attention on the basics and academics.

There is time after school for extracurricular things like sports, drama and all those kinds of softer subjects, shall we say. Maybe that's something else that could take place between 3:30 and 5:00 as part of that day. I think kids need the basics. They need a good, solid base and a foundation for their education, that will equip them for whatever they choose to do later on in life.

Maybe it's just because I am getting older, but now we are talking about full-day kindergarten. Oh, my goodness. When do you ever get to have fun? You are born and now you are going to be shuffled off to day care and now you are going to start school when you are four and you are going to graduate when you are 18, and then you are going to go to post-secondary or get a job. When do you get to relax? It just seems like we are trying to get kids engaged younger and younger. I think we should give parents who stay home to look after their kids a great big fat tax credit. We should figure out ways to be creative like they are in some Scandinavian countries. Maybe we should pay grandparents to look after their grandchildren.

We need to be more creative. I just think we are in a rut in how we do things. We don't ever think outside the box. I just think life is too short to have kids in a structured environment taking homework home when they are four years old. It's the younger grades. Maybe some of you don't have kids and don't know that, Mr. Chairman, but kids are taking home homework at a really young age and I don't know what's to be accomplished by it. Anyway, I would like to know if the Minister in his capacity for being responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, ever has an opportunity to affect the culture of our education here in the North and to bring any kind of creativity to that. If he doesn't have any ideas, maybe he could convene some kind of a dialogue with people to find out how we best and most successfully educate our children without having to stress them out before they even get into their adult years.

Mr. Chairman, there are so many things that could be said about Education, Culture and Employment. I think I will just ask the Minister if he could respond to that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hadn't expected this start for our discussion. It's an interesting issue. I know I have learned a lot about Grade 5 math this year.

---Laughter

And I know that my son is concerned that I am not home tonight helping with the science fair project. There is an awful lot of homework, but it's not the ministry that sets that. It's done by the individual school boards. That's local parents passing on what they think is important to the people who run the school system in their community.

No two school boards seem to have the exact same philosophy. I know there are some who say that by starting to send work home and start in Grade 1 usually with a very small amount coming home in the second half of the year, the theory is that they are setting up good study habits for the future, so the work that comes home isn't hard work, but is something that is designed to set the standards.

If there is a concern about the amount of homework that's coming home, the proper venue to deal with that is through the local DEA. They can discuss how much needs to come home and how much is being done because often it's being done as a philosophy. The schools and the boards often think it's important to set that example.

The Member talked about wanting to have schools and teachers work perhaps from 8:30 until 5:00. It would be impossible to accommodate the teaching and the prep and have the students there at the school for the same period of time. You couldn't have the teachers and students there for the same length of time each day or you couldn't possibly accommodate the preparation and the marking of the report cards unless we are going to substantially increase the numbers of teachers. That is, of course, an option, but you can't do it any other way. You would have to have more teachers, so the teachers who are in the classroom could take time out from the classroom to do their prep work, marking and report cards during the regular day.

We've got an awful lot of dedicated people in the education system in the Northwest Territories. I think that most teachers are there for the kids if they are needed, as late as 5:00, because most teachers take work home and do it in the evenings and on weekends. I think that in general, they are there for the kids.

In terms of the length of the day, our act doesn't stipulate how long the day has to be. Our act stipulates how many minutes or hours in a year that a child must receive education. So, again, it's the local DEA that can set the different length of day. There are some DEAs that have longer days and a shorter school year in order to accomplish local reasons for having more time out of school.

There would be a limiting factor through the Collective Agreement. That's something we have to work with through the negotiation process. You have to respect that.

I guess the bottom line, Mr. Chairman, is that some of what the Member is interested in discussing can be discussed first starting in a PAC with the school and then carrying on to the DEA. Those two agencies can have a significant impact on how the school day is structured throughout the year. That flexibility is there, but we do leave it up to local parents to control the school through the DEA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Hawkins.