Thank you, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to consider Bill 15 and Bill 19, Supplementary Appropriation Act, 2005-2006.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we wish to consider Bill 15 first and then Bill 19.

Thank you. Is the committee agreed?

We will do that right after we have a break. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Welcome back, committee. We will go to the departmental estimates of Transportation. We will go to the Minister to provide the opening comments. Is that agreed?

Thank you. Mr. Minister, please proceed with your opening comments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Members It is my pleasure this afternoon to present for your consideration the Department of Transportation's main estimates for 2005-06. The department's proposed budget for 2005-06 contains an operations and maintenance budget, excluding amortization, of $54 million. This is an increase of .8 percent over last year's main estimates. The department's proposed 2005-06 capital program is $51.4 million. This is an increase of 7.6 percent over last year's main estimates. I would note that almost half of the

capital program, $21.3 million, consists of contributions from the Government of Canada.

To help the government manage its fiscal position, the Department of Transportation has identified $1.1 million in expenditure reductions. By internal reorganization and the re-assignment of duties and responsibilities, the department has managed to reduce its staff requirements by six full-time positions. It has also scaled back its financial contributions to the community marine and local access road programs. At the Fort Providence and Dempster Highway ferry crossings, the department has revised its seasonal freeze-up procedures to save money on fuel and the physical wear and tear on the ferries.

We have taken these restraint measures to cut back on the costs of operation with, I believe, the least inconvenience or disruption to the public.

While the Department of Transportation has had to find ways of reducing its costs, it has been successful in searching out additional sources of funding, mainly from the federal government, that will go towards badly needed capital improvements in our transportation infrastructure. As the committee members know, the Mackenzie gas project will put huge new demands on the territorial transportation system. At the same time, work will also begin during the 2005-06 fiscal year on the construction of the third Snap Lake diamond mine. The new capital funding comes just at the right time to help meet the demands of these resource development projects.

All of the equipment, material and supplies needed for the Mackenzie gas project will have to move over our transportation system. I am pleased to advise the committee that the proponents of the Mackenzie gas project and the Department of Transportation are already working to plan the transportation logistics and have the transportation system ready for the heavy traffic the project is expected to generate.

With Transport Canada and the territorial Bureau of Statistics, the Department of Transportation is studying the long-term implications for the transportation system of a growing hydrocarbon energy industry. The Department of Transportation needs to plan for the demands on the transportation system that will come once the pipeline is built.

The main estimates for 2005-06 allocate a capital construction budget of $40 million to the highways program. With the help of 50/50 cost-sharing contributions from the Canada strategic infrastructure fund, the department has scheduled $32 million in reconstruction projects on highways No. 1, No. 3, No. 4, No. 7 and No. 8 as well as the Mackenzie Valley winter road.

I look forward in the 2005-06 fiscal year to the completion of the reconstruction and paving of Highway No. 3 between Rae-Edzo and Yellowknife. This will come as a great relief to everyone who has ever travelled it and especially to the growing number of people who drive daily between Rae-Edzo and Yellowknife.

Aside from reconstruction, the department's capital program also includes $8 million in projects aimed at preserving the highway infrastructure. The highway system is aging and the lifecycle repair or replacement for many of its capital structures, culverts, large and small bridges, are passed or coming due. These expenditures are necessary to keep our highways in good operating condition and maintaining the value of the public's long-term investment in the highway system.

The last revision of the department's Highway Strategy was completed in November of 2000. In 2005-06, the department will update the Highway Strategy to take into account the developments over the past five years and to give special attention to the seasonal and all-weather highway connections to the smaller communities.

As I have previously announced, as of the end of this fiscal year, the Department of Transportation will no longer deliver the Community Airport Radio Station, CARS, program on behalf of NAV Canada. The department and NAV Canada have been working to make an orderly transfer of the CARS program to a private sector contractor. The transition is proceeding well and the CARS service will convert to private sector delivery on April 1, 2005, without disruption to the air carriers to the communities they serve.

Since the terrorist attacks of 2001, transportation security has become a high priority concern as never before. Almost immediately at airports, passengers and their hand carried luggage were subject to more rigorous and intrusive inspections. The Department of Transportation had to make renovations at the Yellowknife Airport to accommodate the new security inspection procedures.

The regulations of the new Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, CATSA, now require that all checked baggage accompanying passenger flights must be inspected for explosives. The new explosives detection equipment must be installed and operational at the Yellowknife Airport by January 1, 2006. In addition to the security requirements, the Department of Transportation decided that it made sense to renovate for the projected growth in passenger traffic moving through the terminal building. Therefore, an extensive, three-year renovation project has begun at the Yellowknife Airport that will meet the terminal's security requirements as well as its future traffic requirements.

The new concern with transportation security is not limited to the air mode. The Department of Transportation has been working with its provincial, state and territorial counterparts to establish new security standards and procedures for the issuance, storage, retrieval and exchange of motor vehicle records and documents. The Council of Ministers responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety have formally agreed on new international standards and protocols for the administration and control of motor vehicle records across North America. The Department of Transportation will introduce a new territorial driver's licence during the 2005-06 fiscal year. The main estimates provide a one-time cost of $700,000 for the purchase of new equipment and $300,000 for implementing the more secure administrative procedures.

Very briefly, these are the highlights of the Department of Transportation's main estimates for 2005-06. The committee can see that the main estimates include a good many projects and initiatives that the department expects to accomplish over the next fiscal year.

In closing, we expect 2005-06 to be anther year of growth in the traffic at our airports and on our highways. Over the past decade, the traffic carried by our transportation system has grown significantly. Keeping the system in

good repair while meeting the demands of heavier traffic is the department's greatest challenge. Based on the department's past performance, I have every confidence that the Department of Transportation is equal to that challenge. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I will go to the chairperson of Governance and Economic Development for the standing committee's comments. Mrs. Groenewegen.

The Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development met with the Minister of Transportation and his staff on January 17, 2005, to review the Department of Transportation's draft main estimates for 2005-2006.

The Department of Transportation's mandate is to provide for the safe, accessible and reliable movement of people and goods throughout the Northwest Territories.

Deh Cho Bridge Corporation

The Deh Cho Bridge is being built through a public/private partnership arrangement between the GNWT and the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation. The Deh Cho Bridge Corporation will raise the capital, design, build, operate and maintain the Deh Cho Bridge. The Government of the Northwest Territories will pay the corporation for the bridge over a 35-year period, largely from toll revenues collected from the traffic crossing the bridge and savings from discontinued ferry operations and winter road construction.

The Deh Cho Bridge Act authorizes the Minister of Transportation on behalf of the government to enter into a concession agreement. The concession agreement gives the concessionaire, the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, the right to operate a section of the public highway for 35 years. The concession agreement is also a private business deal between the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation and the government.

The committee is uncertain how many of the agreement's details will be released publicly. This concerns the committee because the cost of the Deh Cho Bridge may exceed the current estimate of $57 million. Some estimates indicate bids could go as high as $75 million. A tender package for the bridge has yet to be developed. The price of raw steel has also risen substantially since the project was proposed.

A significant cost increase to construct the bridge could impact and increase the bridge tolls the GNWT has to collect to pay for the bridge. An increase to the tolls may mean communities north of the bridge may have to pay more for goods and services than current prices, that are already high due to transportation costs.

Transparency and accountability must be maintained in this and any future public/private partnerships.

Recommendation

The committee recommends that it be given the opportunity to review the concession agreement before it is finalized;

And further, that the government declare a maximum dollar figure, above which it will reconsider its involvement in the project.

Airport Development

Mr. Chairman, traffic is increasing at the major airports in the Northwest Territories. NAV Canada data shows that there has been an overall seven percent increase in aircraft arrivals and departures. This means that just under half-a-million passengers traveled through NWT terminal buildings. In the future, DOT anticipates an overall further three percent increase in airport traffic.

In order to accommodate this growth, the Yellowknife Airport may have to expand. However, land is at a premium and there is only a small land reserve to the west of the airport on which it can expand. Otherwise, the airport is bordered by a highway, a lake and valuable infrastructure.

Moreover, private corporations, the city and the federal government all have an interest in the land immediately adjacent to the airport, and not all of this development is conducive to airport activities.

This committee feels that it would be unfortunate if the airport were prevented from expanding because of a land shortage. Not only could this adversely affect the economic growth of territorial industries like tourism, but it could also force the GNWT to pay millions of dollars by having to relocate the airport to a larger area.

The committee recommends that the Department of Transportation exercise caution and work with the City of Yellowknife to protect the interests and the future needs of the Yellowknife Airport.

Runway Extension Research

The Japanese spent an estimated $16 million last year in the Northwest Territories. However, the NWT is not the only place in the world from which to view the aurora borealis. The NWT is going to have to be competitive with other circumpolar destinations if it wants to continue to reap the benefits of Japanese tourism. Fairbanks and Whitehorse can accommodate direct flights from Japan, but the Yellowknife Airport cannot.

Extending the runway in order to accommodate circumpolar flights was looked at as part of the Yellowknife Airport development plan. Although the existing runway currently meets the needs of the carriers, extending the runway could be very advantageous to tourism by allowing direct flights to land from Japan or anywhere else in the world.

The committee is very interested in the potential of this initiative and will be reviewing the work and research on expanding the airport runway.

Combined Services Building

DOT is building the combined services building in order to amalgamate several of the activities that the department undertakes. The committee commends the Department of Transportation for this amalgamation, but believes that the department could go one step further by combining the DOT yard with the combined services building. It is located in close proximity to the highway and, therefore, convenient to house highway equipment.

In order to preserve resources and the limited land at the airport, the committee would like to encourage DOT to consider co-locating their highway and airports buildings.

Community Aerodrome Radio Station Program

At the end of this fiscal year, the Department of Transportation will no longer deliver CARS, the community airport radio services, on behalf of NAV Canada. The department has worked with NAV Canada to orderly transfer the CARS program to a private sector contractor. CARS will convert to private sector delivery on April 1, 2005.

When the Department of Transportation operated the CARS program, it provided air navigation services at 17 airports and accounted for more than 30 full-time jobs at the community level in the NWT.

The committee recommends that the Department of Transportation work closely with NAV Canada and the new contractor to ensure services continue to be delivered at a high level and that northern contractors and northern employees are used to continue to carry out the work.

Highways Chipseal Overlay Project

The Department has a $3 million a year budget for their highway chipseal overlay project. With that $3 million, DOT maintains and rehabilitates existing chipseals.

The committee is unsure of the value of repairing chipseal when road widening, ditching and culverts are needed. On Highway No. 6 out of Fort Resolution, for instance, the highway is narrow and heaving and there are no ditches. This section of road does not have any chipseal overlay to repair. Reconstruction dollars are what is required in order to undertake improvements to protect the safety of the cultural camps, schools and residents that use this road everyday. In the interest of public safety, highways should always be built with budgets attached to them for maintenance and repair.

Recommendation

The committee recommends that the Department of Transportation revisit their chipseal overlay project and look at diverting these funds to much needed highway reconstruction projects. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. At this point in time, we'll ask the Minister if he wishes to bring in witnesses.

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort in the witnesses? Thank you. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just perhaps I could suggest that before we go to general comments on Bill 19, Department of Transportation, that we consider Bill 15 and see if we can't conclude that and then resume with the Department of Transportation.

Okay. Is committee agreed?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. I'd like to ask if the Minister responsible for Bill 15, Tlicho Community Services Agency Act, wishes to introduce the bill.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I'm pleased to speak to Bill 15, Tlicho Community Services Agency Act. This bill was developed in consultation with the Tlicho Treaty 11 Council team and is the final piece of territorial legislation required to ratify the Tlicho agreement. It follows the Settlement Act passed by the 14th Assembly in October 2003 and the Tlicho Community Government Act passed by our government in June 2004.

I want to acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the Tlicho, GNWT and federal negotiating teams that have enabled us to arrive at this final stage of the legislative process.

Before I speak to this bill specifically, I would like to share a few comments on the Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement as a whole.

The Tlicho agreement is the first agreement in the Northwest Territories to combine land, resources and self-government in a single agreement. It materializes the vision held by Chief Monfwi at the signing of Treaty 11 in 1921 and has set a new standard for land and self-government agreements across the country.

The Tlicho agreement provides certainty for all levels of government and industry with respect to lands, resources, governance and jurisdiction. It also leaves room for self-government to evolve over time. The implementation of this agreement will increase the political and economic stability of our territory and mark the beginning of a strong economic future for the Tlicho region, the Northwest Territories and all Canadians.

The Tlicho people have invested over a decade of hard work and millions of dollars to get to where we are today. Their commitment came one step closer to fruition in December when the federal Tlicho bill received third reading. I was happy to hear that Grand Chief Joe Rabesca and a large delegation of elders and chiefs were able to be in the House of Commons when the Tlicho bill received third reading. It was indeed an historic moment -- and one that was celebrated, not only by those on Parliament Hill, but by Tlicho people back home in their communities -- as they watched and cheered the vote from their homes, their work and their schools.

Most recently, the federal bill received third reading in the Senate and was given Royal Assent. I was honoured to appear before both the House of Commons and Senate standing committees to express the GNWT's support for the rapid passage of the Tlicho bill. The Tlicho Community Services Agency Act, which is before you now, is our final step. The act provides for the establishment of an agency to deliver education, health and social services to all residents living in Tlicho communities or on Tlicho lands.

In accordance with the Tlicho Intergovernmental Services Agreement, the agency will continue to perform the functions of the existing Dogrib Community Services Board. This includes the duties of the Dogrib Divisional Education Council under the Education Act, which is to deliver the K to 12 education program consistent with the standards established by the GNWT. The new agency will also perform the functions of a board of management under the Hospital Insurance and Health and Social Services Administration Act. In summary, the model will continue to build upon the integrated delivery of health, education and social services.

In addition, the agency may, with the consent of the GNWT, perform a variety of additional roles assigned or delegated to it by the Tlicho government or by the Government of Canada. The GNWT may assign additional responsibilities to the agency in consultation with the other parties.

The model that has been incorporated in the Tlicho Community Services Agency recognizes the advantages of using one system to deliver core programs to all people living in Tlicho communities or on Tlicho lands. The agency will be composed of five members. Four members will be selected by the Tlicho community governments, which will be elected by all community residents. The Government of the Northwest Territories will appoint the fifth member, who will also be the chairperson. The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs will be the political point of contact between the Tlicho government and the GNWT for matters related to the new agency. The departments of Health and Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment will continue to have the primary role in working with staff on day-to-day operational matters.

Already, the Tlicho have been active in creating social and education programs to better meet their needs. This includes a scholarship program to assist students who will become the future professionals and leaders in the Tlicho government. The Dogrib Treaty 11 Council funded an Addictions Strategy that has already produced 20 trained addictions counsellors to serve residents in Tlicho.

The establishment of the Tlicho Community Services Agency is a testimony to how public and aboriginal governments can, and will, work in collaboration to ensure the interests and rights of all people are protected. It provides that practical arrangements can be made within the context of self-government to meet the interests of all residents of the Northwest Territories. It is an example of true partnership.

I urge all of you to approve the Tlicho Community Services Agency Act as soon as possible and in doing so embark on a new era for the Tlicho nation, residents of the Northwest Territories and Canada. At this time I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Premier. I will now call on Ms. Lee, the chairperson for the standing committee that oversaw the bill. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Social Programs conducted its public review of Bill 15, Tlicho Community Services Agency Act, on December 10th, 2004. The committee would like to thank the Minister and his staff for presenting the bill. Bill 15 is the last of three pieces of NWT legislation needed to implement the Tlicho agreement. The bill will create a new agency which will replace the Dogrib Community Services Board and assume the responsibility for delivering education, health and social services to residents of the Tlicho region. Bill 15 is based on both the Tlicho agreement itself and the 10-year Intergovernmental Services Agreement entered into by the GNWT, the Tlicho and Canada in August 2003.

Mr. Chairman, committee members asked the Minister several questions about what, if any, changes to operations and accountability would come about as a result of this arrangement. The Minister advised that it is unlikely that residents will notice changes immediately, apart from the board members themselves who, with the exception of the chair, will be appointed by the four community governments. As the Minister put it, "I don't think we will see any immediate change if we were to go into the classroom or into the hospital or into the community. I think the kind of change we're going to see is probably a new sense of self-esteem, of pride, and so on, that people are delivering their own services, that they have self-government."

The committee understands that changes to program and service delivery may happen gradually, as over time the agency has an opportunity to build its capacity to take on additional responsibilities, and as the Tlicho government considers its own legislation. GNWT legislation and standards will continue to apply, and the GNWT will continue to be accountable for reporting on results and statistics, as it is currently for other health boards and education authorities. The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs will have the lead responsibility for the agency; however, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and the Minister of Health and Social Services will have responsibilities and authorities similar to those under existing legislation and will continue to be the contacts on day-to-day matters. The first recourse for a resident with concerns about the agency would be to the board, and then if the issues could not be worked out at that level, to the Minister.

Members also questioned the Minister on whether the new agency will cost the GNWT any more than the existing board. The Minister advised that the only additional cost will be the GNWT's share of the expense for the cultural coordinator, which amounts to $60,000. The cultural coordinator is a new position with the responsibility of advising the three parties to the Tlicho agreement on how to use their respective powers in ways that respect and promote Tlicho language, culture and way of life. It was agreed that the GNWT, Tlicho government and Canada would share equally in the cost of this position, which will be jointly appointed by the parties. The committee noted that the Intergovernmental Services Agreement provides that the Tlicho Community Services Agency will be funded at levels comparable to other GNWT agencies delivering similar programs and services.

Members also asked several questions about the transition process. The committee was generally satisfied, from the Minister's responses, that reasonable steps have been take to ensure the transition from the Dogrib Community Services Board to the new agency will be as soon as possible, with minimal or no disruptions to programs and services.

Mr. Chair, the committee's review of Bill 15 provided an opportunity for Members to discuss and reflect on the significance of the new relationships we are embarking on with the Tlicho agreement and what the future may look like 10, 20 or 100 years from now. As can only be expected with the first self-government agreement in the NWT, there are many unknowns. How will it work when the Tlicho government begins making its own laws in areas of shared jurisdiction with this Legislative Assembly? What will happen if the parties decide not to

renew the intergovernmental services agreement when it expires in 10 years? Will other NWT aboriginal groups negotiate similar arrangements, or will we see different models in each region? What will this mean for the role of the GNWT in the future?

The reality that there are many questions that today do not have answers cannot prevent us from going forward. After all, this is not the first time as a territory that we have ventured into the unknown. We need only recall the division of Nunavut and the NWT less than five years ago as an example.

The committee is satisfied that the parties have made all possible efforts to provide clarity about their respective obligations, to set out processes to resolve issues and conflicts that may arise in the future and, most importantly, to ensure that Tlicho residents continue to receive programs and services without disruption. The agreement is filled with review, consultation and dispute resolution provisions to this end. We must all recognize, however, that not everything can be foreseen, and that ultimately it is not clauses in an agreement, but rather the ongoing good faith of the parties and their determination to make self-government a success that will make or break this new relationship. In the committee's view, the hard work of the parties in arriving at the Intergovernmental Services Agreement and this bill demonstrates that we are off to a good start.

Mr. Chair, the committee would like to take the opportunity to wish the first board members and employees of the Tlicho Community Services Agency a smooth start-up, and success in fulfilling their responsibilities to Tlicho residents.

This concludes the committee's opening comments on Bill 15. Individual Members may have additional questions or comments as we proceed. Following the committee's review, a motion was carried to report Bill 15, Tlicho Community Agency Services Act, to the Assembly as ready for Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. I would now like to open it up for general comments on Bill 15. General comments. Mr. Zoe.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will be speaking in support of Bill 15. As I said earlier today in my Member's statement, it has been a long journey for the Tlicho people to get here. This bill is the final piece of legislation needed for our agreement to come into effect. It is the part that lays out how health, social services and education will be delivered in the Tlicho region. These are core programs that have a tremendous impact on everyone's wellbeing, personal growth and ability to take advantage of opportunities life brings. It's very significant that they are now being put back into our own hands after so many years.

Mr. Chairman, our elders, leaders and negotiators have come up with a very thoughtful and wise approach, that will allow us to take over and expand these important programs gradually as we build our capacity. I guess you could say, Mr. Chairman, for now we will have the same car, but what will change is that we will be the ones in the driver's seat. In a few years, we may want to trade it in for a new model, and that will be our decision. Our people's access to services will not be disrupted in any way, but I think, as the decision-making power changes hands, they will start to see more of the Tlicho values reflected in their everyday dealings with the new agency. At the same time, they are assured of the same funding and standards as everywhere else in the Territories.

Mr. Chairman, the children of the today are going to grow up in a very different world than I and my peers did, or that our elders did. They won't be dealing with a lack of cultural understanding or outright racism in the education, health and social services systems that we experienced. The Intergovernmental Services Agreement provides for a cultural coordinator who will advise the Tlicho government, the GNWT and Canada on how they can use their respective powers in ways that respect and promote Tlicho language and culture. This will be a very key role, Mr. Chairman. Fifteen or 20 years ago it was not something I would have imagined was even possible.

The children of today will never see the Tlicho people as depending on an outside government to tell us what to do. I hope that they will grow up proud and taking for granted their entitlement to govern themselves according to the Tlicho ways, and to have their language and culture reflected in programs and services. The sky is really the limit for this generation, and I hope they realize that.

Mr. Chairman, I don't think we can say enough thanks to the elders, leaders and negotiators who put their heart into their agreement and legislation for us. So I would like to express my appreciation to them once again. I would also like to thank all the Tlicho who would have liked to have been here in the gallery to witness this historic occasion. I'm looking forward to celebrating with them in the near future, and to the rest of the Tlicho people as we pass yet another milestone. I also want to thank the Minister and the government for bringing this bill forward, and the Standing Committee on Social Programs for their supportive comments.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to sharing with all other Tlicho people the work of implementing the agreement and showing the rest of the Northwest Territories and Canada what we can achieve and how far we can go as self-governing people. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Your witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms could you please escort in the witnesses.

Thank you, Sergeant-at-Arms. Thank you, Mr. Minister. Please, for the record, if you could introduce your witnesses. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me are Bob McLeod, the deputy minister for Aboriginal Affairs; Sharla Carroll, the director of policy, legislation and communications; and our legal counsel, Martin Goldney, from the Department of Justice. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Any further general comments? Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a general comment. I will first start off by saying that I am in support of this and I will be voting in favour of this bill.

Just for the sake of the public of course, there are concerns. Of course, we are establishing a new education board and health board. Maybe if the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs could outline how the agreement would work. For example, if there is incompatibility in the sense of a standard, the GNWT would like to move forward with a different standard, if the Minister could give us an example on how that type of relationship in those standards would work.

There are questions out there on the street as to how that works. It would be good to hear from our Premier to give a simple, yet clear-cut example on the compatibility of those things. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, the new agency being created through this legislation basically takes on the same services and programs that are offered through the Dogrib Community Services Board.

Mr. Chairman, as an agency it has, through the Tlicho government, the authority to be able to make changes to any laws with regard to the mandate of the agency. Before they would make those changes, they would have to consult with the GNWT. They would also have to assume responsibility for any incremental costs. If for some reason GNWT considered that the proposed law would make it difficult for us to operate, we would consult with the agency and the Tlicho government to determine what course of action would have to be taken. This could result in either the GNWT or the Tlicho amending their laws to ensure that the laws could operate side by side. A specific example might be around the number of days of instruction in a year in a school system. That is stipulated in our Education Act. If the Tlicho government were to want to change it, either make it less or more, they would have to consult with us and we would then have to determine whether it was possible to do that given the reasons, and any incremental costs from it would be borne by the Tlicho government. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Minister. In that regard, picking up on the small example again, to help drive forward an ultimate clarity on this. If the Tlicho people wanted to, for example, change the days of school or the number of hours the students had to attend school, does that change once it's acknowledged, whether it's agreed upon in the long run, once it's established in that area? Does that force the territorial side to adopt that rule, or just formally acknowledge that they have agreed? For example, the Tlicho people go to school less, again receiving the same quality of education, that's not the question, we would acknowledge that difference, but we don't have to implement it territory-wide. Could you clarify that just for that sense? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, Tlicho laws apply only to Tlicho citizens. At a practical level, we don't want to operate two different systems in a small community. I would hope that we would be able to come to an arrangement where we would have one arrangement for all of the people who live in that particular community. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, just one last question. It has been raised at committee level, the question of being able to teach in the Tlicho language as the primary language. If the Minister could provide clarity on their ability to provide teachings or instruction; again, not questioning the quality of education that they are teaching, but in the context and the delivery vehicle of how they are teaching. If the Minister could comment in that regard. If the Tlicho people would want to proceed with teaching it in their language, do they have that ability? Are there any restrictions? Do they have to consult with us and to what grade levels would that affect? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, the Education Act provides, as a provision, that the language of instruction can be in an aboriginal language; in Tlicho, in this case, from kindergarten to Grade 3. If the Tlicho wanted to go beyond that, then they would have to consult with us and we would attempt to negotiate an arrangement that is fair to everyone. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one last comment, not a question. I wish to again reaffirm my support and I will be voting in favour of this. At this time I wish to acknowledge, I have been told through my friends in Ottawa, that the Premier/Minister of Aboriginal Affairs did a great job in front of both committees, of the House of Commons as well as the Senate. This emphasized that he charged this issue forward. I have heard it firsthand from witnesses in the gallery, who watched him at play. In other words, the Senators and the MPs didn't have a chance with Joe in the chair. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you very much, but I think there are a lot people who did a lot of great work on this; much, much more than I did. I appreciate the compliment as well though. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, speak in favour of Bill 15. It has been my privilege to have voted for all three bills that this Assembly agreed to pass, to enable this claim to happen.

As we have come through many years of negotiating and back and forth, and we have the legislation, of course now the work will begin. It might be the end of a process, but it is the beginning of the real work of putting this to work for the Tlicho people. As my colleague from North Slave said, restoring authorities and responsibilities that had always been with the Tlicho people.

I certainly consider that it was not something that was given back or gifted, they were always there. We are just going through a transition. Along with those responsibilities, of course, will come a new mandate and mantle of self-governance. These things are not easy and I wish the Tlicho people every good wish in making this work. It is now up to them to prove that after all these years they have something that will indeed make a difference in their lives today and in the future.

Mr. Chairman, in the committee's work and in going through my understanding and comprehension of this bill, it has become more and more evident that this new legislation and the new relationship between the Tlicho people and this Assembly changes somewhat. I have been working at trying to make sure that they understand the nature of those changes in terms of this Assembly's responsibility to pass budgets, for instance, to support and uphold the laws and the regulations and the policies that we have that will continue through our relationship.

So I wanted to just put a couple of questions in this area to the Minister, Mr. Chairman, and perhaps in the area of the relationship this Assembly now has or will soon have with the Tlicho people. What will have changed in the way this Assembly operates and in our accountabilities to the Tlicho people? Does anything change there and, if so, in what way? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, there won't be any immediate noticeable change that we will see in terms of the program delivery and the quality of the service. I think it will continue for the time being. The Tlicho government has agreed that they do not want to take over new responsibilities or draw down any responsibilities for 10 years. So it will continue much as it is now. The biggest change that will result from this legislation will be the new agency. There will be some consequential amendments to some of our legislation, the Financial Administration Act, Public Service Act, in the access to information section of the privacy act because board employees will be public servants with the exception of the director who even now is not a public servant. There are those kinds of changes to legislation. But on a practical level in terms of delivery of services and the kind of service that is developed, I don't see where there will be any changes. There is also a provision, Mr. Chairman, that the Tlicho can take on more responsibilities in the cultural area, for example, or they may on languages of instruction or operations. So those kinds of things may happen gradually, but generally we will see a continuation of the same kind of delivery of service by the new agency as we have up to now through the Dogrib Community Services Board. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Mr. Chairman, will our accountabilities out of this Assembly be altered in any way? Perhaps I can phrase the question this way; that if I was a Tlicho citizen and I had a difficulty with the way in which a GNWT service was being provided, where would I go? Would I go to this new community services board and expect to get satisfaction there? Would I go to my MLA? Would I go to the Minister responsible for whatever program and so on? I'm just trying to seek that difference or that clarification and to make sure that I understand what my job is here as a part of this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If someone had concerns with regard to the quality of service or questions about the service or programs delivered by the Tlicho Community Services Agency, of course they would go to a board member or they would go to the chairman of the board or they could go to the director if they wanted to. If they felt that this was a matter that they wanted to bring up to the GNWT, the contact person in the legislation is the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. So that would be their first point of contact and then, of course, they would be referred to a specific Minister or department that has responsibility. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Right now, Mr. Chairman, we're engaged in the annual budget review and, of course, through this is the opportunity to hold to account Ministers for various programs and for results to date and for what they hope to achieve in the future. This is something that I take as a very significant part of my responsibility as an MLA, and that's why it's going to take three weeks, maybe four weeks, to go through this budget. We want to make sure we do it carefully. Will my ability to hold the government to account be diminished or changed in any way because of this agreement as it relates to the performance of the GNWT in Tlicho regions? Is it something that I'm going to perhaps be expected to say well, hands off, that's not your job anymore, Mr. Braden, there's another relationship going on there. Have my duties changed in any way? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, no there won't be a change. The GNWT is obligated to provide the funding at the same level as we have in the past. The agency is subject to the same reporting requirements as any of our boards and agencies under the Financial Administration Act. So I think the accountability is going to remain the same as it is now, just through a new agency. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Thank you. I think that's all for now and thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm proud to sit here today to be discussing the Tlicho Community Services Agency Act, which is one more step away from the self-reliance of the Tlicho people who are achieving significant milestones at every corner they come to. They are kind of groundbreaking in terms of the self-government model, and it's something that people and chiefs in my riding aspire to and tend to look to the Tlicho to pave the way and be a model for us. I just wanted to say in my comment, that I'll be speaking for the passage of this legislation in third reading, and I, too, would like to congratulate all the chiefs, the grand chief, all the negotiators involved and many of the background workers that worked so hard to get this agreement with the Government of Canada and, indeed, with the Government of the Northwest Territories, as well. It's something that takes a lot of hard work and a lot of agreement, and I just wanted to pat everybody on the back that was involved in this and to say once again that when it's the Deh Cho First Nations' turn, I look forward to the day that we can tea dance as well. Other than that, I would like to say, at this time, congratulations to all the Tlicho people and all the Territories. I wish them a great future. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. There wasn't a question. I'll go to Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not going to be asking any questions. I would, though, like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Tlicho people on this, the final piece of legislation, to launch their self-government into action.

All the time I have watched them since I have arrived in the North, I have noticed that the Tlicho leadership, the families and communities have got a powerful history of supporting education and learning. I think that shows in the success that we see of young people in that region. The Tlicho have consistently put their organization's money into scholarships and other supports for students. I am sure that is why we see so many young Tlicho people in post-secondary studies. It's a disproportionate number in comparison with other peoples of the North.

With this legislation, the Tlicho are going to have a successful organization to the community services board. I am sure that the community services board can claim some of the credit for the success rates that we are seeing in the Tlicho region. I am also pleased to see in the new act, in the new community services agency, that there will be continued involvement for communities through the communities overseeing the schools through an organization like the DEAs. Again, I think community involvement in the administration of schools helps to build the community sense of the importance of schooling and helps to ensure that the community leaders are seen as supporting schooling.

I think this is a good step that is being taken. Mr. Zoe, I would like to applaud the Tlicho leadership and negotiators for all the time and dedication that has gone into this. It's a job well done. Congratulations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Being a beneficiary of the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, I would like to congratulate the people of the Tlicho. I have gone through the excitement of having an agreement signed. I saw the Gwich'in one signed. My family are beneficiaries of the Gwich'in Final Agreement. So there is a bit of uncertainty, but as the other groups have shown, once the Tlicho have their agreement in place, they will do themselves proud. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Further general comments?

Does committee agree we go clause by clause?

Bill 15, interpretation, clause 1.

Clause 2.

We are on page 6, clause 3, establishment and organization.

Clause 4.

Page 8, clause 5.

Clause 6.

Clause 7.

Page 9, clause 8.

Clause 9.

Page 10, clause 10.

Powers, duties and functions, clause 11.

Clause 12.

Page 11, clause 13.

Page 12, clause 14.

Financial matters, clause 15.

Page 13, clause 16.

Inspection, clause 17.

Page 14, administration, clause 18.

Page 15, clause 19.

Page 16, clause 20.

Clause 21.

Dissolution, clause 22.

Page 17, regulations, clause 23.