Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The magnitude of the numbers is, I am sure, relatively close to what the exact numbers are going to be. Whether we are saving, $300,000, $400,000 or $500,000, there is a significant savings to close this facility. So even if my numbers were wrong, they are not wrong by that amount. The amount of money that's in this year's budget, Mr. Speaker, is $400,000 less than what it would take to keep that section of the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre open. That's what the department has given up. So whether the department is exactly right in the numbers that have been presented or is off by a factor of $2,000, $3,000 or $4,000, isn't really the salient issue here. We have given up $400,000. We can't continue with the operation of that facility without that $400,000; we have given it up in this budget. So the budget that's before the House is giving up that amount of money. We are satisfied that it's relatively close to that amount that we can save through shutting it down. So, again, it's not an issue of whether it's $18,000 for transportation. The issue is how much money are we going to save? We are saying we can save $400,000, Mr. Speaker. We believe that that's the magnitude of the savings.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe the department can save $400,000. It is not free to look after remand inmates in Yellowknife versus Hay River. You have to include the human resource costs too. It's not just the cost of transportation. Before we were talking about a 10 percent variance on $18,000, now we are talking about maybe it's $300,000, or maybe it's $400,000. You know, this decision to restructure Justice has been premised on a certain amount of cost savings and if that is not the cost savings, then the decision should be reconsidered. Does the Minister agree? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am satisfied that the magnitude of savings are there. We are going to take $400,000 less in this year's budget. That's what we are talking about. Even if the department was wrong by $50,000, and I don't think they are, I just picked the $300,000, $400,000 or $500,000 just out of the air. Even if those are the numbers, it will be plus or minus over the $400,000 that we are going to save. It may not be exactly $400,000.

The Member asked about human resources costs. The cost to supervise an inmate at the North Slave Correctional Centre is $38.57 a day. At the South Mackenzie, it's $156.49. Why the difference? We have economies of scale in the larger facilities, so it's cheaper per inmate.

In an earlier question, the Member had asked whether or not I thought there would be more cost for somebody to be housed at the North Slave Correctional Centre and I said maybe the cost of food might be an incremental cost. In fact, the per diems, including food, clothing and recreational expenses, are less at the North Slave Correctional Centre than they are at the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre. Again, it's because of the size of the operation and the economies of scale. So there are other savings that we haven't even started to talk about here, Mr. Speaker. We are comfortable that give or take $400,000...Will it be $400,000 on the penny? No, it might be a little more or it might be a little less. But the department has given up, in this budget, $400,000 and we are comfortable that we can provide the same operation with that reduced funding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister said he had picked a number out of the air and I think that's exactly what he's doing on these savings and these reduction initiatives. He's picking a number out of the air and so is his department. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if he is so confident of his numbers and the projected savings, would he not then agree to a conservative investment, not some big, full-blown extensive review, in an independent opinion to verify these numbers that he's so confident of? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have any money in the budget to do that. I have given up, in this budget, the $400,000. The bottom line, Mr. Speaker, is in the budget that's before the House, we have reduced the expenditures by $400,000 and have said in order to achieve this reduction, we have to close the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre remand unit. Mr. Speaker, we will function this year with $400,000 less. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know exactly how the Minister thinks he can make these projections, except based on historic data. I am saying that I will be quiet and I will go away on this issue, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister would agree to have an independent person look at this projected savings, which I say is a supposed savings. I don't believe it's there. If he will agree to that today in the House, I will await the answer of an independent assessment of these projected savings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not inclined to agree to that right now, but it is something...I will double check the figures myself and endeavour to show the Member where we can demonstrate the savings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on the issue of the Dene K'onia and the $1.5 million I believe the Minister said that it costs to operate the Dene K'onia, Mr. Speaker, he keeps referring, and so have other Members of the government kept referring, to a number of one. I believe that that open custody young offenders facility in Hay River can accommodate eight young people. He says there has recently only been one young offender accommodated there. I am going to ask the Minister is he going to stand by that number today in the House on the record? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When Mr. Villeneuve was asking about services to his communities, he was referring to inmates from the South Slave region. I was referring to the number of inmates in the facility from the South Slave region. That, in the past couple of weeks, has been one or two. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for clarity, the Minister is not talking about one or two from Hay River. He's talking about one or two from the entire South Slave region and going back, again, you can't just use one day as a snapshot, he's saying that going back historically there has only been one or two young offenders in that facility from the South Slave region. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously numbers have fluctuated. Within the last year, the numbers have been quite reduced. It's in the order of an average of between one and three, depending on the week. The numbers I reported were for the last couple of weeks. So, of course, it has fluctuated. The numbers that have been in Dene K'onia since March last year have ranged as high as six or seven at times, but they haven't all been from the South Slave. A good number of the clients, probably a majority of the clients from the past year, have probably been from regions north of the lake. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, would the Minister not agree that that is not unusual in terms of the territorial facilities that we have, such as River Ridge Territorial Treatment Centre and the Arctic Tern facility in Inuvik? As territorial facilities, it's not unusual for there to be a group of people from the various regions. I understand why the Minister is making the point when he is referring to South Slave numbers, because he's being asked by South Slave Members. In the context of the territorial facilities, is it not common to have people from all regions? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.