Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am glad that we are getting to what this is all about, because this is not about 22 people looking after one young offender south of the lake at the cost of $1.5 million a year. This is about taking a service territory-wide that was delivered in Hay River and moving it to Yellowknife. Isn't that the correct truth? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not exactly. We had been operating two facilities for the Territories, but, as a cost-savings measure, we tried not operating the one in the North Slave for a while and discovered that we can't save nearly as much money as we can if we shut the one down in Hay River. As I said, the issue of where the clients came from isn't something that was raised by the department when the issue was put before the standing committee and the business plans. Where the clients came from was not talked about as part of the justification in the initial incidence. That has been talked about only since it became an issue, after it became publicly known that the facility was slated for closure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier today, I mentioned the issue of people who have arrears with the Housing Corporation and have difficulty paying off their debts right away and then they find it a difficult situation where they are not eligible for Housing Corporation programs. Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation is what ways is he going to address the need that those people who can help themselves are able to help themselves? In what way will we have a policy that addresses the time and that need? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have processes in place to assist people with arrears. You can work out a payment plan with the local housing authority to come in and say you are willing to pay down your arrears over a period of time; make biweekly payments or monthly payments. Out of that arrangement, then your name can get back on the list for public housing, but you have to sign an agreement committing yourself to pay down those arrears. I think the whole policy we have in the government, or since I got in as a Minister, is that we have to bring down those arrears that are out there. The majority of our LHOs have a 90

percent rate in ensuring that they collect those rents. The majority of our local authorities are doing that. But, again, there are options there for people with arrears to work out a payment plan with the local housing authorities so that they can get back into public housing.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To be very specific, when the Minister says pay back those arrears in conjunction with dealing with the housing authorities on the local level, do they still qualify for housing while they still have outstanding arrears regardless if a payment program happens? As I understand it, they are excluded from public housing until those arrears are completely cleared away. Could the Minister explain that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the idea is that in order to get into public housing, you must not have arrears. The idea is, through this payback plan, to make sure that people who have been evicted because of not paying their arrears can come back to the local authority and work out a payment plan to pay off those arrears. Then their name will be put back on the list for public housing. Again, you have to remember that we have a lot of people on the waiting list to get into public housing. So you can't jump the queue because you got evicted and then come back. You basically have to wait until your name is put back on that list. The whole idea is to have a fair housing program in which we have to accommodate our social clients. Again, we do have programs and policies there to assist people, such as I mentioned in regard to the payment plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the clear answer from the Minister on that particular case, but what the Minister has basically described is if we have a family at risk and they owe money in arrears, I can't see it any other way. How do they make a payment plan when they have no money? The other thing is if you have no money and you can't make a payment plan, where are you to go? Social housing is to be there for those people who fall in that bracket of nowhere to go. We have people in jeopardy who are at risk. Will the Minister agree that, at this time, he could look into a policy that can address this social housing need to get these folks off the street or are in at-risk situations and build that in such a way that we can say, okay, welcome to social housing, but you have to be on a payment plan? Will he look at a policy that deals with that problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have programs by way of income support. If you are talking about clients who are in need of support, we do have support mechanisms in place. But, again, I have to point out to the Member that the whole idea of social housing is that we have been given direction that we have to do better in collecting our arrears that are out there, and bringing down those percentages. Like I said, we have a base set for local housing authorities. We expect them to collect 90 percent of the arrears. They are doing that. But, again, we do have policies in place to get people back in housing, and we do fund other social agencies in regard to the transitional housing here in Yellowknife. We do have other programs that are there to help people. I would just like to point out to the Member that we have to be fair to all of our clients. We cannot do one thing and force people to pay their arrears but, on the other hand, leave an open door. So we do have these policies. There is income support to assist people by way of social programs that we have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what we have heard is government at work at its finest. One hand of the government is paying the other hand of the government, and we are no further ahead. So people who have arrears we're allowing income support, I think as I understood it, to pay their housing arrears. At that point, I am really lost. Why are we bothering with the administrative work then, if that is what the Minister was trying to say? I applaud his effort by his saying that we are going to try to deal with arrears. I applaud that effort, but if you don't have anything and you are asking to pay something and you have nothing to give, well, at the end of the day, we have nothing. These folks are struggling out there. We need a policy that clearly says if you owe money, you can still qualify for social housing. But to get social housing, you have to engage in an active payment program plan. We don't have a policy that addresses that. You clearly said earlier that you have to pay off your arrears before you qualify for social housing. So there's a problem. Will he address that problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, we do have programs there to assist people. If they did have arrears, they come into the local housing authority and meet with the counsellor at the office and say I would like to get back into social housing, I know I have arrears. By showing commitment by that person, by signing a payment plan and saying okay, I agree to pay down my arrears...I know it is not going to happen overnight. It can happen over two years or four years, but at least make the attempt to come in and make that commitment. That's all we ask.

We ask for them to make the commitment, because it's not fair to our other tenants who are making their payments and are in good standing. But in order to be evicted and not pay your arrears means you have an outstanding debt you did not pay. So there is that program to ensure they get back in. But again, if the Member would like to talk to me about this individual, I would like to sit down and explain to him or sit down with the local housing authority to work with this former client to get them back into social housing. Again, they have to make that commitment. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Krutko, in relation to my Member's statement regarding the independence of the Appeals Tribunal process from the Workers' Compensation Board itself. Mr. Speaker, does the Appeals Tribunal still, indeed, have administrative and staffing links to the WCB workings? Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we still do have a system where the board basically deals with a person's appeal. A decision is made and if they don't like the decision, they appeal it. It can be appealed by the individual through the Appeals Tribunal, but there is still some management link just by way of administration in that corporation to oversee the process. Again, we are looking under phase two to allow the clarity and identify the transparencies so we have that independency, because there have been overlaps in regard to how appeals have been handled, but also how the Workers' Compensation Board responded to those appeals. Again, we are working through that by the second phase of the legislation. Once we bring forward the second phase of the legislation, hopefully we can have more transparency to separate the independence of these two boards. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.