Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, a lot of things over the years have changed within Public Works and Services since the days of government services. A lot of departments have taken more and more of the program end of operations and done those. We've also gone through a privatization initiative where a lot of the work we used to do is done by the private sector through contracts. As well as user pay/user say is another term that affected the department in a fairly significant way when departments were given the control of the dollars for their operational facilities and they would go out and contract on their own.

What we've also done, for example, when Public Works and Services was very into the operations and maintenance of equipment facilities buildings, we used to have a lot of shops that would travel around and individuals that would travel around to communities to do the maintenance work. What we've found now is communities have taken on that area and are doing a lot of their own work through the hamlets or municipalities. So they've done that on that side of it. So there's a lot of the work that has been moved over to either communities directly or through privatization and contractors.

Recently there hasn't been a move that way. We've worked closely with Municipal and Community Affairs, Health and Social Services in the area of water systems and we're working with, for example, on the petroleum side, the Power Corporation on a possibility there of sharing that avenue. What we've found in some areas where we've devolved some of this, departments have come back to us and requested some of our staff to do the work as they found it to be too expensive when they're doing it on a small isolated situation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Last question to the Minister in terms of going back to Colville Lake and the school there, they have no running water. They're on the honey bucket system. What happens there? I'm asking the Minister for clarification in changing that honey bucket system to a regular washroom like any other school that has the proper washroom facilities. I don't think part of the education curriculum is taking out the honey bucket and changing that. I want to ask what is the department or government doing to help these little kids over in Colville Lake. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, again in the example the Member has brought up around the school and its facilities, when it comes to washrooms and the water facilities, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment would have to establish the project. The work that would be required to either renovate the existing facility or once they've identified what work needs to be done, we would become involved in doing a bit of the feasibility work where is it worth renovating or is it time to get into a new facility. Once that work is done and goes through the capital planning process, if it makes the criteria, it gets established into the five-year capital plan. At the same time some of the other impacts we have to look at throughout the whole community, and Municipal and Community Affairs would be involved in this, is the area of the treatment of the sewage and the facilities that would be required to undertake that, as well. So there are a number of activities that would go on, but again it would initiate with the department. If it's a school, if it's a hamlet garage, if it's a POL site or petroleum products site, it would initiate from that level and we would then get involved after they've initiated the work in that area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I have Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's too bad I wasn't here when MACA was here earlier, but I think I'm going to ask the question to the Minister right now with regard to some of the projects that are carried out. At the present time in Tuktoyaktuk and Paulatuk, there is talk about the erosion problem. I know that indirectly Public Works and Services have a play especially, I think, in regard to the geotechnical work, so to speak, I guess on behalf of MACA with regard to that. I'm just wondering, right now at the present time, both in my community and Paulatuk, they are concerned about the erosion problem. Have you guys had any discussions with regard to that to try to rectify some of the problems for this coming year? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am aware of some of the erosion concerns from the communities the Member has raised, but the involvement that we would get into from the Public Works and Services side would be somewhat limited. Again if the project has been established, contracts would be let out in those areas of geotechnical work that needs to be done. In some cases we might be directly involved; in some cases it may be strictly within the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. I'd need to get more detail on the specifics of the project. Again, as well, if it directly involved the hamlet and the work they might be doing in those areas and how it would tie to the department. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is it possible to find out, I know the hamlet has been talking with MACA, like I say, both in Tuktoyaktuk and Paulatuk, but when you say directly and indirectly involved, can you give me an example of at what point in time Public Works and Services would be involved with cases like this? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, again, once the project has been approved through the Assembly and the dollars are approved, the sponsored department -- in this case it would be Municipal and Community Affairs -- would look at the work. If they had the expertise and decided to follow through with their own process, we would have very limited involvement. They could call us in if they wanted to get some specific areas of information from us or they could call us in to manage the project, as well. So there are a number of different ways that can flow. But I guess I can commit to the Member on these areas to try to get more information for him once we get a bit more detail. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will work closely with the Minister and MACA right now in regard to these erosion problems both in Paulatuk and Tuktoyaktuk. I want to touch on the petroleum products division, Mr. Chairman. You can recall about two years ago the petroleum products in Tuktoyaktuk was privatized to a local company in Tuktoyaktuk. There have been a lot of

private homeowners that have seen a lot of increase in their heating fuel and also the use of gas for their vehicles. Can the Minister give me a sense of how you determine or what you take into consideration when you decide to privatize a petroleum products division? I wrote a letter to the Minister some time back and the privatization of the petroleum products in Tuktoyaktuk was confidential in nature. I hope when they do that again they take into consideration the benefits of people who are homeowners. Mr. Chairman, right now it's cheaper for me to get the fuel truck in from Arctic Dove in Inuvik when they do come down versus what I have to get in Tuktoyaktuk. Can the Minister give me an idea of a sense of what is actually taken into consideration before privatizing petroleum products? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, at one point the government-wide decision was to allow for privatization of facilities, specifically petroleum product facilities we had in communities. That happened in a number of communities. It was felt though as the larger communities were pulled off line that it was getting to the point where it would be uneconomical for both a business to try to operate in some of these communities as well as it became more cost prohibitive on our shop to look at further privatization initiatives, because the economies of scale would lose ground with each one. It is the policy, however, of the government that if an individual or company were to establish in a community, that we would not compete with them. We wouldn't necessarily pull out the services and decommission our facilities; we would hang on to our facilities for some time to ensure that there would be an adequate supply of services to that community. In each case, when a proposal was brought forward, the review of providing a service, the requirements, the liabilities, would be taken into consideration. But once a decision was made and there was support at the time by community and the leadership for that move, then once that transfer has happened then again it becomes a private sector operated facility and as the GNWT we would not have influence on the prices, besides that of what the cost is to ourselves in trying to recoup some of the cost to the GNWT. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just so I can understand correctly, once petroleum products are privatized is the government saying they cannot dictate the cost of what the fuel cost and gas price should be? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, what the Member has stated is correct. Once an operation has been privatized and it's a private market, that is private business that is operating it, we have no ability to influence the price. The only thing that can then influence, and the Member has hit on it a bit here, is competition from another company. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know if I can go into this, I'm still on petroleum products, but I'm looking at the main estimates going back to 2003-04. Can the Minister give me a sense of grant-in-kind of $524,000? Thank you.