This is page numbers 919 - 948 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was health.

Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is something we've been in discussion with committee about. Governance and Economic Development committee was floated the idea first, initially, and they were at least intrigued enough with the idea to suggest that we needed to get out and talk to businesses and get their sense. The premise, Mr. Speaker, really is that the BIP, which was created a number of years ago, we think is not as useful as it once was, not as effective as it once was. It really speaks only to GNWT procurement. I think the last numbers we had, on $200 million worth of procurement, there were premiums paid to BIP registered businesses somewhere in the neighbourhood of $200,000. If you remember back to the initial impetus for this, it was about levelling the playing field for northern business as compared to southern. What I think happens, for the most part now that our market is a little more mature, is that you have BIP businesses bidding against BIP businesses and it ends up being a wash. So we felt that the administrative burden on our department, but spread right across all departments and on small business and larger business to comply and register, to have us monitor the BIP, was onerous compared to the value. So we've started this discussion. I've met with the NWT Chamber. They are putting out a survey to their membership over the next month, and we will have ongoing discussions around this.

But I want to clarify that it's not a small decrease to the small business tax rates. It's, in fact, a 50 percent reduction in small business tax rates, from four percent to two percent, that we're proposing would fill the gap. So we would, instead of having the BIP program, we would take the money and use that to provide a 50 percent tax break for small business. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I'll definitely say anything that helps small business is certainly a good step. But, Mr. Speaker, there is a concern out there that this dropping of the BIP may be steamrolled and consultation may be just for formality. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to point out a couple of things. The Minister's tabled documents in this House have pointed out that Health and Social Services sole sources 77 percent of their contracts. A letter from Minister Miltenberger, which I tabled in this House, pointed out that 92 percent of their business at Stanton Territorial Hospital goes south. So, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to hear how this Minister is, yes, helping northern small business with a two percent tax reduction, but how is he going to help and protect and promote northern businesses by dropping one of our wonderful flagship programs? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For specific procurement concerns that are taken up by departments, arm's length agencies or boards, you would have to speak to the Minister involved in that, Mr. Speaker. Of course, we run the contract registry which provides the information. We think it has added a real element of transparency. I think the Member would appreciate that. The kind of information he has at his fingertips allows us to go back and look at procurement practices. That is what we are doing.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business, after surveying NWT businesses, came up with a list of priorities and reducing regulatory burden and red tape was near the top, Mr. Speaker. That is what we think we are doing. Another one was competitive taxation regimes and reducing taxes. We think we are doing two things here. We are reducing regulatory burden and providing a tax break. We think that is to the benefit of all small businesses, not jut the ones, I would add, that do business with the GNWT. Obviously, the non-renewable resource sector has had huge impacts. There are many businesses making their prime business in dealing with these companies. They would now benefit. All businesses across the North making income would benefit from a small tax break. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 928

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, while reducing the taxes to small business, again I say, a darn good thing, but, Mr. Speaker, we have to make a solid point on this. You have to be getting contracts in order to have something to deduct in order to make that two percent reduction worth anything.

Mr. Speaker, I don't have to go through the statistics I said the other day, as well as just earlier, that the Minister does monitor through the registry of the sole sourcing and the sourcing that goes south at 92 percent for Stanton. Would

the Minister consider options such as maybe replacing the BIP, or modifying it so any business that is a northern business that files their taxes in the Northwest Territories are the only ones who qualify for BIP? At least that would squeeze out big corporations such as Wal-Mart or large box stores from competing with small businesspeople who are trying to make a living and promote our North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, we have been down this road a number of times. I think past governments' experience would tell you that tinkering with the BIP is not the answer. Let's either be done with it and recognize that it is not relevant anymore, and we will consult businesses to find out if, in fact, that is their feeling, or let's leave it as is. But if we start to make changes to this, we can undertake a great deal of consultation. I can assure the Member there are ways businesses want to be creative and find a way, if they are motivated, to work around the regulations. You are going to have southern businesses able to register a storefront in the North and comply. Wal-Mart is just an example. It is well within the regulations and the policies that we have in place and does qualify as a BIP registered business. They are registered to be able to provide a whole range of products.

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to you that the real answer here is about levelling the playing field for all northern businesses, making sure we reduce our regulatory burden and our tax burden. The issue of sole sourcing of contracts, really BIP becomes irrelevant. It is sole sourced. It doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if the BIP is in place or not in place. If there is a sole source that takes place, that is exactly what is going to happen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I respectfully think that the Minister missed the point on the sole sourcing, because what I am saying is 92 percent of the business in Stanton Territorial Hospital went south. That took away any opportunity that these northern businesses had to tender or the opportunity to tender, I should say, on those contracts. That just flew right over them, Mr. Speaker. That is why I drew that comparison. Yes, BIP doesn't apply to that, but BIP is about establishing solid grounds where northern businesses can be competitive. Mr. Speaker, I still go back to what I said on the third question which I just never got the answer. So I will ask it maybe this way, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister look at re-evaluating the BIP? I know he doesn't want to tinker with it, but would he look at re-evaluating the BIP that it only applies to companies and businesses that file their taxes only in the Northwest Territories, not these multi-nationals that partner? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, no. What the Member is asking me to do is to put in place some sort of change to the BIP that would require immense auditing, policing, would add to the regulatory burden. What we would be asking small businesses to do is essentially share private tax filing information with us. I am not even sure we have the ability to do that. I could consult with the Minister of Finance, but you are adding layers of complexity, bureaucratic red tape, and I can assure the Member that is not what small business wants. What we have to do is find a way to help small business be more competitive. It is not about coming up with onerous protection schemes. It is about reducing regulatory burden and reducing the tax burden for northern businesses. That is what we are going to do. We are going to get out of the way so that businesses can do what they do, which is make money, employ people and create economic development. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Further Return To Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Question 380-15(4): Status Of The Business Incentive Policy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this morning will be for Mr. Miltenberger as the Minister of Health and Social Services. They relate to the field of mental health services and legislation in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, the Social Programs committee, in its report to the Assembly, referred to the pre-budget consultations that were held last fall in a number of communities. I will paraphrase, Mr. Speaker. The report told us that there is not a lot of buy-in at the local level for the Mental Health and Addictions Strategy. Anecdotally, Members were told there is a real disconnect between residents and what we heard were primarily southern-hired mental health workers. The communities were pleading that if they were given the dollars and the mandate, they felt they could do a much better job of this.

Mr. Speaker, we have dozens of workers engaged in mental health, community wellness and addictions services, but, given the response that the communities have told us, it just doesn't seem to be working. What is the Minister's response to this really quite disturbing report that we are not making much headway? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 929

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we will be sharing with the Members the document done by Dr. Chalmers which was a review of the work that has been taking place over the last number of years, based on her initial assessment of the addictions and mental health services in the North back in 2001, which was called, A State of Emergency. From that document, we came up with an action plan that

committed us to a course of action across the North that saw us do a much better job in terms of bringing addictions workers on stream, setting up mental health workers, supervisors, all based on the fundamental principle that it is best to put resources at the community level. We put in over 77 positions. That document by Dr. Chalmers will be, as I said, shared to the Members and made public next week.

The title for her report is called Stay the Course, and Building and Keeping the Foundation That We Have Set Up Over the Last Number of Years is the basic title. I am always interested in the feedback that the committee provides us, but when this document comes out, the committee has a chance to look at it. Then we can sit down and have an informed discussion about how we intend to move forward. We will also be coming forward with a response from the department on how we intend to respond to those recommendations. Thank you.

Return To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you. I guess I will take that one as notice, then, until the report comes out, Mr. Speaker.

On the clinical side of this question, my colleague from Hay River South told us, when she addressed this issue a couple of days ago, that 36 percent of our hospital admissions are for mental health and addictions related causes. Mr. Speaker, are we adequately resourced in our hospitals and clinics to deal with this disturbing and substantial problem in admissions and care in our hospital system? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, doctors would confirm that, in fact, a significant amount of their practice is tied to mental health issues and related circumstances, as are most other health practitioners. We have a significant amount of resources. We have a $265 million budget. A lot of it is focussed on nurses, doctors, social workers, wellness workers and mental health workers. There will always be more problems than we have resources for. The issue is to make sure that, I think, the resources we have are put to the most effective use and that our plan for the future reflects the required changes. When I put the Chalmer's report before the committee, they will be able to give us their feedback in terms of what they think of Dr. Chalmers' assessment. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Well, we have been put on notice again to the Chalmers report. Mr. Speaker, our Mental Health Act is, I discussed in my Member's statement, a piece of legislation that is badly out of date in accordance with professional, legal and administrative standards. An impression that I have been given is if we can modernize this, we are not only going to be able to give people better care and do it quicker, we are also going to be saving a lot of human resources and money. Would the Minister advise that we will see the modernization and updating of our mental health legislation during the life of this Assembly, Mr. Speaker?

Supplementary To Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Question 381-15(4): Mental Health Act And Related Services In The Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 930

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.