Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The federal government has no responsibility in the area of education. It is an exclusive jurisdiction for the provinces and territories, but the Canadian government does offer a program called Canada Student Loans. They are available to Canadians across the country. They are typically offered to those who have trouble qualifying for the provincial programs or territorial programs. We have opted out of the program and opted, in the past, to take the million dollars, because we didn't think that many people would, or that was a better deal for us than to have northern residents applying for the Canada Student Loans Program.

I would be quite happy to give a chronology of the program and why we have made the choices that we have here to the Member. The last time an assessment was done, we found that we were still farther ahead to take the million dollars than to opt back into the program. It is not likely that we will see the federal government getting into direct funding of this kind of program again. In other words, we don't have anybody in the federal government we can go to, like an education Minister, to say you should be helping us out more.

Having said that, the Council of the Federation has brought up the issue of post-secondary funding with the previous government. I know that they are quite interested in seeing this situation addressed in some way largely because, in the mid-1990s, the transfer payments to provinces were cut significantly in the area that they were using for post-secondary funding and health and social services. The Premiers have all been addressing this issue. That is the table at which this is being discussed. The Council of the Federation is having a post-secondary skills session at the end of February. There will be some of the Premiers and Ministers of Education from across Canada participating at that in order to discuss with stakeholders where it is we should be going in trying to re-engage the federal government to get back into providing some funding in this field, because they pretty well dropped out in the mid-1990s and have not ever come back in this area. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We recently have gone through an election campaign that was largely agreed as one that contained one of the most rigorous debates about various policies. One of them was post-secondary education policies. We have a federation; provinces have jurisdictions over education and health; but the beast of federalism we have is such that there's lots of pockets of money under the federal government even in the areas that the federal government is not supposed to be responsible, like post-secondary education funding. You know, provinces are supposed to be responsible for health, but there's lots and lots of pockets of money that the federal government still is in control over and that can be said about lots of other stuff. So I really think we could just ratchet it up a bit, and change the gear, and get more aggressive, and see how some of these policy ideas could translate into our benefit. Not to mention the fact that we're not winning the battle on loan programs available to aboriginal students like the programs that we provide here that the federal government is not willing to pay for.

Also, the Liberal Party suggested that they would pay for half of first-year tuition fee and half of the last year of the post-secondary program, and I don't know what the position was of the Conservative platform. I can't think of that off the top of my head, but I think it would be very much worthwhile for us to do an analysis of that and whatever deal that the new government has that they're going to offer to the provinces, we should be trying to get that same share or more, because he thinks that we have to fight for everything on the basis of what's unique to us.

So I'd like to hear from the Minister, as soon as possible, about what is out there that we could tap into. None of this is going to be easy and we could justify forever about how we can't get something because it doesn't work for us, or it's not geared for us, or blah, blah, blah, but I would like to hear more about what we can do.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think in my last reply I did say that we were working with the other jurisdictions in Canada, all of them, to try and get the federal government back into the field. That's the reason for the meeting with the stakeholders, and the Premiers, and Ministers of Education at the end of February. So we are working on that. This is something that was started with the last federal government and it's one that's continued with the new federal government. We have thrown our weight in with all jurisdictions in order to try and accomplish the goal of getting the federal government to engage.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, if I could continue, we're speaking on the revenue summary and the bigger picture of our student loans and it causes me to question why don't we consider the option of...The Minister suggested, I think, he's not prepared to cover wage loss for adult learners or people who want to go back and take adult education, but that's not what I suggested. Would the Minister look at considering the option of allowing SFA to be able to cover the upgrading costs of those students we've failed? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess that's an interesting choice of words. I'm not sure that we have failed everybody who fails. Somewhere there has to be some personal responsibility for achieving success as well, but we are certainly taking a look at what we can do in order to fund other programs. Right now, the Student Financial Assistance Act in itself limits what we can do, because it stipulates in the act that the funding can only be for post-secondary. I can certainly discuss with my colleagues on the standing committee whether or not there's an appetite to change the wording in that act, and then we could broaden out the approach; but outside of that, I've also told the standing committee that I am looking at options for funding adult training programs, or funding support for adult training programs, and we're

hoping to look at that in the next business plan. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Well that's good news to hear that we're going to make changes potentially in the next budget, but that's also a year away. Could the Minister sort of highlight how many people go through the UCEP program in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not sure if I have those numbers with me here. I can certainly make them available. Typically, the money runs out before we run out of applicants.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, we discussed earlier when I said that I'm aware that someone on income support could take upgrading, but the bottom line is if you don't qualify for income support, then that closes that option off and if there's only a limited amount of funding through the UCEP program and I haven't suggested at anytime that if you're working maybe a $12 an hour A&W job and if you're lucky to get $12 an hour without a high school education, you know, I haven't suggested at one time that we should worry about trying to cover their wages, but we should be figuring out how to get these folks into school. If you're 22 years of age, how do you get back into upgrading and how do you get back into the system? In Yellowknife, if you're 22 years of age, you're tired of flipping burgers, but whatever the job may be at minimum bottom barrel wage and you want to do something with your life and you've fallen through the cracks through the education system, how do you get your life in order and how do you pay for upgrading and how do you get back into the system to get going? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you. We have a little rule in this House about saying things about people who aren't here to defend themselves and I just feel compelled to say to those people who work for A&W that perhaps they haven't all fallen between the cracks and we need people in all sectors of the workplace and in the workforce, in industry and in the private sector, and I would not care to characterize them as bottom of the barrel. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think there was a misunderstanding of the point that you're now qualifying you're in a bracket I was trying to describe. Madam Chair, I'd like to ask the Minister if we could get some type of commitment. He said he'd look into a program or look at because there is the existence of the program, or sorry, there is a lack of existence of a program. When is he going to get some numbers together to look at a strategy to come up with some type of program for the next budget year of how we can help these folks get on their own two feet and move forward in their career? Could the Minister also comment on if you're in a small community that has a learning centre, are you able to take adult upgrading for free in one of those small communities, or do you have to pay? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. All adult literacy and basic education courses are free of charge all across the Territories. I have already committed that we are going to take a look at the program and attempt to bring one in in the next business plan.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Is there free adult education upgrading in Yellowknife?