Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is no change. The amount is set the same for any student who applies for and qualifies for student financial assistance. This is an issue that's been raised in particular by people in the Beaufort-Delta and there was a concern that the higher costs of attending college in Inuvik is seen as an incentive for people to attend college outside of the Northwest Territories, and it's an area that I've agreed that we'll take a look at and may look at making some changes in the future. It's going to be too late for this year because of the timing, but it is an area that we are going to review and see whether or not there should be a difference in supporting students in particular for the college.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Okay, I think the Minister got it. That's exactly the point. How long has the Minister or the department been aware of the fact that there is a significant disparity between attending Aurora College in either Yellowknife or Inuvik versus any other academic institution across Canada? I mean, essentially the way that this grant is set up right now, it sort of discourages somebody to attend school either in Inuvik or Yellowknife versus somewhere else. I mean, the cost of basic living, how do we take into account of encouraging our students to stay north where it's feasible? I mean, let's take rent for example. Rent in a southern Canada institution could be a mere $400 or $500 a month. Rent for a single apartment here in Yellowknife could run you $1,100. So how do we take a look at the cost of going to school and how do we recognize this? I'm glad you've put it on the record that ECE has finally recognized this, but how long has ECE recognized this because it doesn't sound like it's a new problem, it sounds like it's been around for a long time. So I want to understand how this department is not discouraging the youth or adults or whatever from taking education at the local level and encouraging them to go south because they can afford to live somewhere else, as opposed to live at home and learn? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This has been an issue that's really been raised mostly by people in the college system just in the last little while. So this isn't something that has been argued very strenuously for a long time and I think one of the reasons is that it's not just the cost of living that governs the cost of post-secondary education. The cost of a post-secondary education has gone up dramatically in a lot of areas, and, in particular, tuition in many southern institutions is way higher than what it is for the college. So a good significant portion of money that people would have to come up with if they choose to go south would be above what we pay for tuition.

Again, there are other areas where housing is very expensive. So for instance, if a student wanted to attend the University of B.C., the cost of rent in Vancouver is probably higher than it is in Inuvik and I think that you'll find the same if a student is going to Osgood Hall in Toronto. The Toronto rents are also extremely high. So you have to take a look at the whole package and that's what we're going to do over the next little while, and we'll take a look at whether or not we can bring in some changes in the subsequent year.

Thank you, Minister Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can absolutely agree with the Minister, that probably a rent in Vancouver or Victoria is probably very expensive, but the fact is, I mean, we have our institutions here. So what are we doing to help to nurture them because we could send anyone to a community college in the context of basic grants and it's probably significantly cheaper to send them there than the support we're giving them to stay home where they probably may want to consider that option seriously. I mean, to send someone to Aurora College can't be that cheap and it's almost like on one hand we're promoting Aurora College, on the other hand we're not ensuring that our kids, or our youth, wish to be financially able to do this. So it's almost discouraging in that context. How long has this problem been on the plate of this department? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The costs for post-secondary education have been increasing everywhere. It's not as if the college has been asking for support for housing for years. So I know that we've managed to respond in Fort Smith and Inuvik. It's a long-standing request for housing. This has been something that has been held up by the size of the capital plan, not because it wasn't something that we weren't aware of. Again, the same is true of demands for increases, for instance, like we're showing in this budget, to the grant for tuition and for the book allowance. I know I've had students ask about that for quite some time, but we've managed, in this budget, to find the money to be able to bring it forward and we'll continue to look at areas that we can improve the program. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Dent. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, I'll say it's probably my fault to just nail rent down as the only problem of cost of living. The reality is a jug of milk probably costs a heck of a lot more in Inuvik and in Yellowknife than it does maybe in Grand Prairie or maybe it does at Memorial University in St. John's, Newfoundland, where you can pick it up at your corner shop. So cost of living goes a long ways and I'm wondering if our basic grant isn't keeping pace in recognition of where you may live to attend post-secondary education. I think and I appreciate the Minister's sort of olive branch and say we're going to start looking at that, but I would like to hear it as a clear mandate in the year 2006-07 that we're going to make

sure that we start addressing this type of regional disparity, because if our kids or youth or whatever the case may be can't afford to keep up with the cost of living on the local level, but yet it's cheaper for them to go to another institution, that kind of seems unfair just to think about it in the terms of pushing them away to go to school somewhere else, versus letting them get education in an area where they have family, friends, relatives, et cetera, whatever the case may be, an area that they're familiar with. So I'd like to clearly hear that the Minister is going to take this on as a real priority to recognize the economics and the disparity between going to school either here in the Northwest Territories or other regions of Canada. The fact is, yes, if you were living in downtown Toronto, your rent is going to be very expensive. But it's not just going to school in Toronto, it's not just going to school in Vancouver, it's the whole package of cost of living. Rent is only one element of these factors, Mr. Chairman, it's everything, it's the package. So I'd like to hear that, yes, that there will be a mandate and they're going to work to get to the bottom of it by the time we do our next main estimates a year from now, that we'll be looking at good news on how we're addressing this problem to ensure that every opportunity is afforded to our students to take education where they want and they can afford to. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I said that that's what we were going to do. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Dent. We'll move now to Mrs. Groenewegen. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We've been talking a lot about facilities, and infrastructure, and schools, and the need for replacement, and retrofitting of certain schools that have been around for awhile, and I just have a few questions about that. There is some money in the capital budget this year for upgrades or renovations at the Diamond Jenness Secondary School in Hay River for the 2006-07 budget showing an amount of $50,000. I also see in the following year, 2007-08, an amount of $200,000. So that's a total of $250,000. It indicates here that this is for a change room and I'm wondering has this been deferred, or moved, or postponed, because it seems like we've been talking about this little bit of money now for quite some time? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I could ask Mr. Devitt to answer that question if we have the information here with us.

Thank you, Minister Dent. Mr. Devitt.

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So $50,000 this year and $200,000 next year. I guess that's all the budget allows for, but I'm really disappointed that's not all being done at once. I mean, if it's just for the change room, you'd think that $250,000, considering that's just about the entire extent of capital being spent on education facilities in Hay River, that could have been done over one year as opposed to spread over two years.

I want to talk a little bit, or ask a little bit, about the half-year assessment. It wasn't so long ago in the 20-year needs assessment there was a capital project item in there for the replacement of Diamond Jenness Secondary School at a dollar value of $12 million. That doesn't appear to be anywhere on the radar screen anymore. What is the policy of the Department of Education with respect to starting to think about replacement at mid-life? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Devitt has informed me that the construction for the change rooms will take over a one-year time period. It's just that the starting of it will show up in two budgets. The way that it's working, between the planning and the actual construction, it will be a shorter period than two years. It's just that it's going to cover two budgets.

In terms of planning for, at one point I think the department used to say after 20 years we would take a look at whether a mid-life retrofit or building a new building was required. I'm afraid that fell by the wayside when the capital plan got to the point where we couldn't spend money as we once did, and we're now working on a process where the facilities are examined on a regular basis and then, as required, they move into the capital plan for renewal and renovation.

The Member's quite right that DJ is getting to be an older facility, but what we're finding right now is that, for the most part, it's somewhere between 25 to 35 years before we can look at renos or replacement. It depends on what sort of condition the building is in whether it's a 25-year or 35-year cycle. So we are going to stay on top of the situation and we depend on our partners at Public Works to tell us when we need to start looking at moving a project into the capital plan. But it's no longer become one of those automatic things, or it's no longer one of those automatic things that it used to be automatically 20 years do a review. We have to wait for signs that it's required now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.