Thank you, Minister Krutko. Mr. Braden.

So the rent collection target of the units that are occupied is within a couple of percentage points of target. Okay, I am seeing some nods over there. Mr. Chairman, one more question on the market housing initiative, for the 2006-2007 budget that we are about to vote on here, are there any costs, expenses, carryovers, commitments that the government is asking us to vote on related to the market housing initiative, or have all the expenditures been satisfied, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Krutko.

With regard to market housing, which this falls under, we have 110 units that still follow under the classification of market housing, not just the 22 units from last year and the 22 from this year. The total cost is $892,452. It has been approved already in the budget.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Next on the list I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask the Minister a question of the facility in Deline. When would the good people of Deline see that facility in operation? I am not going to belabour the amount of money or all the other good things that go along with having that facility empty. It takes some coordination and I would like to see that facility in use. I am asking on behalf of the community of Deline in terms of the facility that is not in use, what plans are in place by this department to sit with the other departments to get something in place or finalized? There is some concern right now from the people in Deline in terms of getting that building into some use. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Krutko.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Certainly, that's good news. I am very pleased with the Minister and Health and Social Services that worked on a coordinated approach and it's no longer a crying shame for the people in Deline to have that facility in use. Is there any type of discussion in terms of if the people want to repatriate their elders from the Aven Manor centre if someone requests us in the future? Again you have to talk to the Minister of Health and Social Services. That's part two on this Deline

facility here in terms of plans or discussions or other consultation with departments. I want to know if that option is available. I am not sure how receptive the Department of Health is going to be or how open they will be to that idea. The people really want to repatriate the elders back to the community. There are two right now in Aven Manor and there is one from Tulita; two elders from Deline and one from Tulita who have some feelings of heading back to their home country for their final days. That's what they are asking for. I understand it is going to require more discussion, but I want to see if there is an opening here somewhere to have some of that discussion. At least we know where we stand with the Minister on this issue. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think the question would be better addressed by the Minister of Health since he's talking about a level two facility. The Department of Health and Social Services is responsible for seniors' homes. We simply build and mange these facilities on behalf of Health and Social Services. So I would allow the Minister of Health to answer that question.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Mr. Chairman, my recollection is we had this discussion when we did the Health budget and we are looking at the Deline facility. I know there is a letter in there for a seniors' unit in addition to that that's not in anybody's planning at this point. So that's about all I can add to the discussion.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, both Ministers. At least we know where both departments stand on this issue. There's ample time for further discussion. I wanted to ask not so much in terms of a question to the Minister. As you know, our region has been quite high in the needs survey in terms of the housing survey. People in our region sure appreciate when the houses are built and repaired in our region. You are starting to see some improvements. So as much as we know there are things that need to be corrected, however, when we start seeing houses being improved in Fort Good Hope, for example, where houses were being fixed up, looked after, I look forward to some sort of regional meeting for our own region to talk about our own needs and our input into housing. Certainly it will be different from other larger centres and we appreciate that these units and the housing that's different from the larger centres. Our needs are a little bit different than the larger centres. We want to have some flexibility in terms of how they look at our homes in the communities. For example, Colville Lake, there is a high core need there. There are cases of TB, meningitis. There is sickness in this day and age that shouldn't really happen in our communities. I don't know it's not because of one issue. I think it's many issues that make this happen. I am not blaming any department. These types of situations, there are basic needs that need to be met in our communities and housing is one basic need that needs to be really on the list of our top priorities in some of our communities that have families who are living in single dwelling units, large families with six or seven people. That's just the condition. That's the way it is right now in our region. However, we see this department making improvements. So it's not as bad. I am not speaking for our other regions because I don't live there, but I see there are some improvements, new ideas and new concepts.

There's a shift in the changing and thinking. We certainly have to support our regional offices, our local offices. There is a different attitude of owning houses in the communities. We have to have more grace time. For a long time, our elders have said the government has promised housing. That's an oral interpretation or commitment that they passed down onto us. Now they get confused or not too sure. You know how government is honouring the commitments. So it's becoming somewhat difficult. We tried to tell them it's a different way of doing business. Those old-timers, they hang onto the word very tight. If it changes, they really get mad at you. We, as some leaders, can understand. We have some good advisors and some good understanding of what the agreements are. It's the old way of the tradition.

To some, Mr. Chairman, in terms of having some leeway and flexibility, I am not sure how that will affect government or the housing, but that's why he has people working for him to advise him on these kinds of issues. For the community people, they hold sacred the words of the treaty or the oral version of what they think the treaty is or the interpretation of the treaty. Housing is a sacred cow to them. It's going to be a real challenge to make a shift in our attitude to what you guys are talking about. I think that's important. The Minister has to realize that. We go back home and it's totally different. I just ask for that blessing in the transition of what he's aiming for. We understand it. It's the old ones we have to convince because it's the old ones that give the word and we follow it. I am just trying to understand that we need some leeway time here, Mr. Chairman. We need the word, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do have to agree with the Member that even working from the territorial perspective and also nationally with the previous First Minister of Housing and the First Ministers' conference on aboriginal issues, housing is probably one of the more stemming issues that are in aboriginal communities and we are no different in the Northwest Territories. We do have processes that now allow us to address the self-government process and it allows people to take over government programs and services such as housing. I think the Sahtu is well on their way.

In other parts of Canada, you do have First Nations housing, on reserve and off reserve. We have to start looking at how those programs and services are being delivered. Also, we have to realize we are taking steps to improve the quality of housing, especially in the Sahtu communities. This year we are looking at some 35 units. We are hoping to deliver 94 units over three years. I think that will really improve the housing conditions in the Sahtu communities.

One thing we have to pinpoint is where does this problem stem from. I believe it happened in 1992 right across Canada, not only here in the Northwest Territories where

the federal government, through CMHC, made a decision to get out of social housing and stop funding social housing programs. At that time, they changed the format from looking at social housing to look at running the programs by way of using the mortgage systems such as bank financing, EDAP, another program such as that based on looking at financial institutions to provide housing across Canada.

I think the Member is aware that we are going to be hosting a housing conference in the Sahtu possibly at the end of March. There is another opportunity for the people of the Sahtu to tell us, as government, exactly how we should lay out the delivery of 34 units in the Sahtu communities. Where should they go? Are we putting them in the right place? Are the programs we have going to meet the challenges that are in a lot of these communities? One that I touched on is land development in a lot of these communities, especially the experiences we have had in Fort Good Hope where we have had floods. We have an area in the community which is a slide zone. We are not allowed to build any more houses there. We are being restricted on how we can deliver programs on those types of communities.

Again, I would like to thank the Member for his questions. Hopefully a lot of these issues will come out when we have the conference in Norman Wells at the end of March and we will be able to address a lot of these issues and lay out to the communities what is going to be allocated over the next number of years and how they can assist us by meeting the goals and objectives of getting these houses on the ground. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Next on the list I have Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, further to the market housing initiative where we had left off, I had asked the Minister if he could identify in this coming fiscal year what expenditures were booked for the specific market housing initiative. The Minister advised that this was rolled into the whole Market Housing Program of the corporation and I don't find that adequate, Mr. Chairman. We've spent, over the last two fiscal years, a great deal of debate and interest in this. The Minister has told us that it has helped solve considerable...It has had a considerable positive impact in these given communities and I don't want to take away from that success. Mr. Speaker, this was a fairly distinct, separate initiative, still underway, I still want to keep it on the radar screen of accountability and scrutiny and if the Minister or the corporation needs a few more days to tell me are there any specific costs associated with the market housing initiative in the coming year's budget? I will be happy to give him a few days to come up with a precise answer, but I need to know. Are we going to be spending yet more dollars on these 44 trailers at least in the coming year? That is the question that I have and the answer I am looking for, Mr. Chair. That about does it for me for the Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. I have Minister Krutko next.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we did provide as much detailed information as we can on the market housing to AOC, and the information that was requested, there was an attachment D that was provided. If the Member doesn't have it, I think you have it in front of you. If not, I can get a copy of this made and I believe that is it. That is the latest information that we were able to put together in regards to market housing. That is the most updated information we have. I believe you do have that information. It was provided to AOC.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. We are on page 8-7, NWT Housing Corporation, department summary. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the units that are built in the communities versus the communities that are on all-weather roads, is there a different process for communities up in the Beaufort-Delta, Sachs, Holman, Paulatuk, and in the Sahtu region not having access to an all-weather road? Is there a different process in terms of these houses being built? Certainly, in our communities, we certainly require some more lead time or flexibility in terms of the arrival of the units, the supplies and the development of lots certainly need to be re-examined. I just wanted to ask the Minister because of the seasons and because of the material being delivered to the community is certainly different than NTCL barge versus coming up the highway down on the South Slave here except Lutselk'e which is on the east arm of the lake. I just wanted to ask that question to the Minister, Mr. Chair. Thank you.