Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I do commit to go back to committee before we make any final decision on this, but I would just like to let the Members know that this process has been going on for three or four years. There have been proposals back and forth. This has about the third time around where we are looking at another scenario. Again, there is a question about the rent supp. The rent supp is clear. It is there for low income people, because we do have that commitment under the dollars we do give for rent supp. We want to ensure that it is designated for use for people with low income. Again, we will commit to come back to committee before any decision or this project proceeds any further. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to try to get this clear. I will make this as pointed as I can. Is this facility in Hay River definitely going to be a seniors' complex? I know the Minister has mentioned rent supps now and the possibility that some of these units might revert to social housing in Hay River. What are we talking about, a seniors' facility or a social housing facility? What is it going to be? I can't see how it could be both. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The understanding I have is that they are looking for people in the age marked 50 years and over, so that is the category they are looking at by way of the criteria that is being used. We are working along with the Hay River Seniors' Society and also with the private company. At the end of the day, the Hay River residents have to make the decision from the seniors. Do they want this or don't they? Again, like I say, this has been bounced around for the last three or four years. The money has been sitting there, so we haven't made a decision over that period of time. We will make sure that, before we proceed, we will get back to committee on any changes. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Has the Housing Corporation actually given away the land where this facility is going to be built? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the land is owned by ourselves outright. We have not given the title to anyone. We are still holding it in the bank for the seniors' project. Again, we have title to that property.

Thank you very much, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just a little bit leery about the Minister saying 50 plus. Has the Minister got a list of eligible clients that would be ready, willing, and able to move into this new facility that is going to be constructed in Hay River? Has he got that list from the Hay River Seniors' Society? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We do have an older list, but we don't have an updated list. I can get that list and bring it back to committee in regards to when we do the update.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I just want to reiterate the fact that the Minister says that it is a public deal, but, Mr. Minister, there is $450,000 of taxpayers' money going into this project so that makes it a taxpayer's deal, as well. I think we have a responsibility here to try to protect where the dollars are invested. We have scarce resources as it is. I wouldn't want to see, like I said, mistakes of the past repeated. Whether it is $450,000 or it is $6 million, it is still taxpayers' money that is going into this project, earmarked for this project. I just want to make certain that we have clients to fit into this facility. I know it was mentioned just the other day that there was recently a 12-plex completed in the town of Hay River. Maybe some of the clients you have on your old list

moved into there. I am really leery of the project going ahead without a firm commitment from clients to move into the facility. I can't put it any plainer than that, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, before any of these dollars are released, we have to make it clear that the money we are allowing, based on the $18,000 per door per unit, is based on those residences having to be occupied by low income people. In order to ensure that occupancy list is there, the dollars we are expending is for low income people to reside in these units. They are basically low income housing for those residents. That is why we are giving them the rent supp. It is just like any other federal program where they do give private businesses so many units that they designate for social housing or whatnot, but it has to be structured for people with low income. So that is the catch. It has to be for low income residents to reside there.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to get back on the list.

Thank you. I have, next on my list, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister talks about upgrading the rental stocks in the communities through the local housing authorities. Some of the units are old. Some of the units have to be assessed quite a while in order to either upgrade them or tear them down or release them to community members who have lived in those units for sometime, up to 20 or 30 years. I take it there is a Supported Lease Program to facilitate such a process for these people taking over some homeownership. For example, if someone has been living there for the last 30 years, they go through the Supported Lease Program and they don't qualify for it, for whatever reason. They might have had a bad year and they just got all muddled up with their finances and had a rough time within a two-year lifetime and, for whatever reason, they don't make the cut, they would continue to stay in those units, I take it. This Supported Lease Program, is it offered only one time per unit per family or per person, or can they apply over and over again until somebody can demonstrate that they can take care of their housing or their finances? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Supported Lease Program is to assist people to become homeowners. Like you say, there are people who are on social housing. They have been in social housing for a number of years. To assist them to make the transition from social housing into homeownership, we are looking at a lease arrangement where the individuals will pay the operational cost of those units in which, over a two-year period, then at that time they are assessed based on their ability to pay, but also through counselling and whatnot, make them realize what it will take for them to pay a mortgage, pay your utility costs and realize what you are going to need by way of understanding what your responsibilities will be as a homeowner. Basically, it is a transitional program to get people who have been dependent, living on social housing, out of social housing into homeownership. Instead of basically charging them a mortgage or at the start you allow them two years to build up collateral or whatnot so that, after those two years, you assist them by way of ensuring that they have a good credit rating and whatnot. Then after the two years, we work with them to get them either to the bank for bank...(inaudible)...or get them into one of our program areas. So it is sort of a transitional program. I think, with this, we are hoping to see more people being able to become homeowners, especially for First Nations people. In Canada, one thing we've realized is that, in order for them to get ahead dealing with the aboriginal issue across the country, homeownership is possibly a better way than simply continuing to put people into social housing.

I think it is a national issue. I think, because of that, we have taken steps to find programs that will allow for us to work with clients to be able to give them the tools they are going to need to transfer from being a client of the Housing Corporation in regards to a social client in becoming an individual who will be able to, at some point, own their own home. Thank you.