Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the Member's riding, in the information I have, it shows three vacant units in Fort Res. So those other units that are boarded up could be someone's HAP unit or someone basically who has received a unit in the past and it's a private homeowner who owns that unit. So right now, we only have three vacant units in Fort Resolution.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just getting back to some of the rent supp questions that were being raised with the 28 companies that hold onto these rent supp leases in the NWT, I know that with my experience with working with the Housing Corporation as an LHO manager, the rents do come up every five years for renegotiation. I have consistently expressed my concern for the high rates the government pays these companies for the lease agreements that are in place. The government has the responsibility to keep these units in fair shape and are responsible for all the repairs and maintenance and pays full rent, whether they are occupied or not, 365 days a year. I know that a lot of these units that the government has 20-year leases on, I can figure out the costs associated with construction and lot development and everything. A lot of these places have paid for themselves two or three times over. My feelings are that the government really walked...or contractors basically jumped on the bandwagon when the government came out with this Rent Supp Program. In a lot of cases, I can see why these contractors just are so quiet about the Rent Supp Program, that it's just a gravy train for a lot of them and it just keeps their companies afloat in a lot of instances. They don't have to supply any maintenance or any upkeep or anything like that. Basically the onus is on the GNWT and the LHOs to see that these units are kept in fair shape and that means in the 20-year lease, those companies expect to see the unit still liveable after 20 years. I am telling you, those public housing units don't last 10 years without some major repairs happening.

It just gets back to what the other Member was saying about the whole rent supp agreements. It's really hard when you are talking about $4 million in payouts to these rent supp units every year. With some amendments, that might make it go even higher. I find that it's just a give away. It's really just government throwing money away into the communities and all these rent supp units are usually owned by private construction companies or private landlords. I think that's something that should be revisited by the Housing Corporation, because if we are 10 years into a lot of these leases and we are already dishing out $40 million over 10 years, in another 10 years that's another $50 million. That's a lot of houses there. Then when these leases are up, the government is expected to give the unit back to the leaser in living condition. I just don't know why the government actually backed itself into a corner like that.

I would like to see more reviews done into all the leases the government has entered into and the rent supp program. I think that a lot of them are way over market. Mind you, some of them will probably be under market, too. I would say that there has to be some adjustment made every five years in favour of government, in favour of market trends and wear and tear in general, and the shape of all the units that the government has to upkeep.

Getting back to the Member saying there is just not enough information and $4 million a year is a big chunk of the NWT Housing Corporation budget, and I don't see it anywhere in these cost estimates for rent supp units or anything like that or what changes are being proposed. I would even move that the review in Committee of the Whole for the Housing Corporation to go through detail, but I think the whole department has to be revisited after this information is provided. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Rent Supp Program has been around a lot longer than we have. I think the decision was made back then to find a way to deliver housing in a non-market environment where we had to find some options. We got cut in 1992 from the federal social program funding and the government-of-the-day made a decision. That decision, at the time, was to go to rent supps. You can see from the history of these projects, most of them are in place, like the Member mentioned, 10 or 20 years, but 10 years ago is when most of them were gotten into. If there is an avenue to review those clauses with regard to opting out clauses or review period clauses, we already committed to look at that and see what we can do to review this process. If these are locked in, we do have a legal obligation that was put in place by former governments. Because of those legal agreements, we have to fulfil those agreements. Again, I commit that we will look at these arrangements and see what our options are, and what alternatives we can look at to review these arrangements and what legal options we have of getting out of them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Minister, for that commitment that there will be a review undertaken anyway, or at least a visit to the Rent Supp Program because I think it's something that's been put by the wayside for too long and every time a five-year renewal comes up, they just, without much thought, sign on the dotted line and sign for another five years. The LHOs, I know the rent supp is included in the LHOs' quarterly or monthly contribution agreements also, but maybe some of these rent supps could go up and some of them could go down, depending on the housing markets. The LHOs would be better off knowing that there are some reviews being done and to get them to understand how their money is being used more effectively with the rent supp programs that they manage. So I look forward to seeing some kind of a review process carried out in the Housing department to oversee the whole rent supp initiative again.

Other than that, I look forward to the details about the whole program. That's all the questions I have for the Minister so far. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are committed to review this.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to follow up on a couple of things that Mr. Villeneuve asked about with regard to the rent supp analysis. Again, thank you for committing to that, but I did bring this up at least two months ago and the people in the committee meeting looked at me like I had 10 heads. I have been talking about this for a long time and now it seems like here we are wanting to approve the budget and now we are going to look into it. I still want to know, and I am going to go back and check Hansard from yesterday because I asked if any renewals have been signed in the last two months and I was told no. I am going to compare that to the information that we get because I have reason to believe from other sources that, in fact, some of those renewals may have transpired in the last few months since this has been brought up. So I am not saying anybody was misinforming me intentionally, but I am curious to see that comparison.

Mr. Chairman, I am interested in the timing of that analysis. I would like to see that be made a priority, and I would like to see that information come back to this House as soon as possible. I don't know how quickly it can reasonably be done, but it's only 28 contracts. It shouldn't take that long to analyze it.

Mr. Chairman, just moving on, when we talk about consultation with stakeholders, certainly the Standing Committee on Social Programs is considered one of those stakeholders, and things that the Housing Corporation is undertaking we believe comes back to Members of this government to consider. The LHOs, I think, are a tremendous source of input and I would like to get the Minister's characterization of how large of a role the LHOs play in terms of setting the direction of the NWT Housing Corporation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we do have annual, ongoing territorial meetings. We do have regional workshops with our local housing authorities. By those workshops, it assists us in developing work plans and also the allocations that are requested. We then realize what the frontline workers are dealing with. So we do have ongoing meetings, either at the territorial or at the regional level with the LHO or LHO staff along with the regional staff. So we have had, since I have been here, quite a few meetings especially in the regions or districts and also in Yellowknife with our local housing authority staff.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the observations and input of the LHOs as the frontline representatives of the Housing Corporation is then brought back and given serious consideration in setting

policy and priority and direction for the NWT Housing Corporation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we do work closely with our LHOs because they do a crucial job for us being the frontline workers that we have and it's important that we keep them involved in all aspects of what we are doing, where we are going and what is happening within our operation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the other areas I just wanted to touch on briefly is there has been much discussion within this government with respect to our ability to affect the cost of government through energy conservation and energy efficiency in equipment and buildings that are controlled by the GNWT. Certainly the NWT Housing Corporation is a large piece of the infrastructure in the Northwest Territories. I would like to know if there are any specific initiatives underway within the NWT Housing Corporation to control or curb costs associated with your O and M in response to the higher energy costs that everyone is experiencing right now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are working with the Arctic Energy Alliance on different initiatives. We are partners in that arrangement. We are also trying out different products. We are trying what is called a conematic system, which is a heat system that we are trying in three communities -- Hay River, Norman Wells and Inuvik -- where they run off of gas. Also, we are looking at working with communities on energy projects such as heating systems in seniors' homes. We've tried monitor heaters to act as a backup system for seniors. We have tried pilot projects in different communities. We are also working with other agencies to find energy-efficient ways of heating our homes, but also trying to bring down the cost that we have in place for our public housing. So we are working in different areas of that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to talk to the Minister about the consultation process that he's about to undertake, or a committee under the direction of the Premier is about to undertake, on the mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation. I was wondering if there has been a price tag yet determined in terms of that consultation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.