Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to pick up where I left off with my other questions, and it gets back to caribou numbers and the proposal that went to the Wekeezhii Renewable Resources Board. I want to talk about accountability, Mr. Speaker. From where I stand on this side of the House, somebody has to be accountable as to why the proposal was developed by one department, ENR, to reduce tags for caribou in the North Slave region to 350, and Cabinet fully knows that a reduction by 70 percent, to 350 tags, would, in essence, kill the outfitting industry in the North Slave region. So where's the accountability and when were Regular Members going to be advised of this proposal? Again, we found out third hand and there's something about the accountability. I want to ask the Minister of ENR, how does he define accountability in this regard? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, my responsibility is in the area of environment and natural resources, and the caribou falls under this heading. We've looked at the number of caribou that are out there; we've surveyed the herd; the numbers were questioned; we went back and surveyed the herds again, our numbers came back that there's even less caribou in our survey than we had previously calculated three years prior, and looked at the amount of caribou that were being harvested in this area. Mr. Speaker, there's well over 6,000 caribou being harvested and there is a requirement to start making some decisions. I don't expect my recommendation to be taken lightly by anybody, for that matter, Mr. Speaker, because there is real concern about the effect it's going to have on industry. But we have to recognize that we have a herd that is in trouble. We have a caribou herd that's in trouble. Their numbers are crashing. We have to do what we can. We have to work with the outfitters; we have to work with resident hunters; we have to work with the aboriginal governments to ensure that this herd survives. We've seen this herd crash by 60,000 animals in the last three years, Mr. Speaker. We have to do a lot more, including non-hunting zones. We'll have to look at some of the ice roads where we limit hunting or else cancel hunting during certain times of the year. There's a number of things we have to do, Mr. Speaker, and I think that's being accountable, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just think the way it was all played out, obviously Cabinet to have made a decision or was advised, and if they weren't advised of the reduction to 350 tags, then something's amiss, Mr. Speaker, because we weren't advised. I'd like to know when Cabinet was advised of a reduction to 350 tags. The fact of the matter is, a reduction of that amount would spell the end of a multi-million dollar tourism industry here in the Northwest Territories and we didn't even have the pleasure of being advised of that by the Minister or by anybody in Cabinet. If they made the decision, I think somebody has to be accountable for it. Mahsi. So I'd like to ask the Minister that question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, I'm surprised the Member said he didn't know what was going on. The Minister-of-the-day stood up in this House and indicated there was going to be reductions in February of last year. Those numbers were looked at and the survey was done this summer. The Minister's statement indicated that if there were further reductions to the quota, to the herd surveys, we would have to cut the numbers further. We brought all those numbers forward for discussion and looked at what we needed to do. We've also looked at what other harvesters are out there who are taking animals. We have taken some initiative in those areas. The resident hunts, for example, we've reduced those numbers. We've cut out the meat tags for some of the aboriginal groups that were out there.

So there are a number of other things we factored in here. It's not only been focussed on the outfitters. I think we've done our part. We've calculated the numbers. We've announced it in the House. We've provided that information to the outfitters, but, Mr. Speaker, I don't think anybody who is...Mr. Speaker, I am sure some people are not going to accept these numbers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do know and I was advised in the past of declining numbers of the Bathurst caribou herd. No question about that. But I don't understand, and again I fail to understand, how it is we can manage a resource not knowing all the parameters. We don't know the numbers of the Ahiak. We don't know the numbers of the Qamanirjuaq and they all

intermingle in the North Slave region. So how do you manage a resource not knowing all the numbers? I've asked the question the other day in the House, and I will ask it again, what is the total number of caribou in the Northwest Territories? I think it's a legitimate question and it has to be answered. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I indicated before that we just recently conducted a survey. We know the three Bluenose herds and the Bathurst herds and the Beverly herds are surveyed. We have those numbers. We are planning to do the Beverly next year, the Qamanirjuaq is something we don't have in the plans to do right now. The Ahiak herd is another herd that we don't have any plans to survey. Mr. Speaker, those two herds that I mentioned are in another jurisdiction. We have our own estimates. I have my estimates that we have looked at and we know that all this information is out there in the public. The herds we haven't surveyed we estimate have dropped by 50 percent, as have other herds. Mr. Speaker, we don't have the resources to go out and survey all the herds. There is a plan through the International Polar Year that we will start looking at calving grounds and have all the calving grounds assessed over the next five years. That's probably going to help us in terms of resource development. Mr. Speaker, it's difficult to provide information when a lot of times the herds are in other jurisdictions. We need cooperation and there have to be resources identified to do that.

The herds we are talking about, the Bathurst herd, we are confident in the numbers. We've surveyed them twice. We know what the numbers are and that's the herd we are targeting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment and it relates to the Tourist Deposit Assurance Program and the potential exposure that this program has in relation to caribou tags that have been sold by outfitters. Mr. Speaker, very late in December, well into the sale season for selling sports hunts, the government decided that 750 tags would be the limit. I want to know, Mr. Speaker, up to that time, caribou outfitters had anticipated that more...or they had been told that more tags would be available. Mr. Speaker, I want to know did sport hunting businesses, in good faith, actually end up selling more tags than the government has decided to make available and what is the impact on the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program if those deposits cannot be returned, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that the Department of ENR consulted with the outfitters to get a handle and an estimate on the number of tags that had been sold in December. The number that they were given, to my understanding, was 727. I think that's one of the significant factors in having the government arrive at a figure of 750. I do believe, though, that some outfitters have gone out and continued to sell tags, Mr. Speaker. So we potentially do have some questions that would impact on the TDAP program. Mr. Speaker, we will deal with those on a case-by-case basis. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, not only do we have a collective 750 tags among the 10 licensed outfitters, but they are individual and independent quotas. Mr. Speaker, how is the department managing the allocation of those tags that may not have been used to the fullest allotment by each outfitter? Is there a pool system? Is there some turnover going here? Are some outfitters, if they potentially oversold, potentially going to be penalized, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Members know, the allocation is done by ENR. ENR proposed, I understand, a couple of possibilities to the outfitters and eventually determined that the best solution was to come up with an equal number of tags be allocated to each of the outfitters, then a pool created for unsold tags or unused tags. If by a certain date, I understand, an outfitter hasn't used all those tags, they would go into the pool to be accessed by other outfitters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What kind of deadlines or timing has been placed on that pool allocation or that final assortment of who gets which tags for the 2007 season, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of ENR advises me that the cut-off date will be May 15th, so tags that are unsold or unused by May 15th will go into the pool to be accessed by other outfitters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.