Page 2-177, pro-forma income statement.

Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. An ongoing flag on the health and status of the Housing Corporation has been diminishing contributions from Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which I believe started sometime in the 1990s. We are going to be going from somewhere in the neighbourhood of $30 million a year down to zero. By 2037-2038, we are going to be down to nothing, from $30 million a year now. Mr. Chairman, I don't quite know where those contributions are booked, but on this page, under income, I wanted to ask a question I know has been asked in just about every other budget review. What are the options that this government has to replace what we know is a diminishing sunsetting contribution from CMHC into our public housing stock, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. CMHC are cutting back on their programs. That's all on the public housing side both on repair and maintenance and operation of public housing units.

The most obvious alternative for us is to get out of public housing and more into homeownership. That will be successful if our economy stays strong. Then we will see more and more people in their own homes paying their own utilities and so on.

The other possibility as we move along, if the economy doesn't stay strong, nationally there is a very strong push by the AFN, for example, to do more dedicated funding for aboriginal housing, which would help to resolve some of that challenge.

At this point, there is a fairly major reduction over the next 30 years that's going to be happening.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Okay. Knowing that we are going to be losing the major federal injection over time, but it's on its way out, knowing that we still do not have the major engine of our future, the Mackenzie Valley pipeline for sure, knowing that quite a large section of our population, Mr. Chair, has become quite dependent on public housing and without a pipeline and lots of development down the Mackenzie Valley, we aren't going to have very many options to enable private homeownership. So what is the government's plan? I am uncomfortable looking at this sliding scale of income and not having a plan to either replace it or find other ways to manage it. Are we ignoring, deferring or delaying dealing with the inevitable here, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, there is no doubt that we have some major challenges on the housing front and this is one of them. On the positive side, if our economy stays strong, as it has been, then we are seeing more rent being paid. Right now, the rent being paid by clients in public housing is somewhere in the neighbourhood of $200,000 to $300,000 more each year. Not as much as the federal government is reducing it by, but we are moving in the right direction.

If our economy is strong, we will be okay. We will continue along the track of getting into homeownership rather than

public housing, gradually decreasing that to those who are in extreme need of housing; that kind of housing, whether it's homeless, people without incomes and so on.

If the economy is not strong, then we have the same problem as some other jurisdictions, because this reduction by CMHC is about a $2 billion reduction across the country by 2037. So we aren't the only ones being hit. I think the only other option we have if the pipeline doesn't go ahead, we don't find a strong economy here, is to continue to join forces with the national aboriginal organizations, with the other provinces and territories and continue to lobby away at the federal government to put some housing money into the North. There isn't many other options for us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one more comment or idea in this nature. Is the ability or the opportunity that aboriginal self-government organizations potentially have in this area? Certainly one of the broad objectives or visions of aboriginal self-government is that these governments will then gain back the authority, the ability and the responsibility for doing more things for themselves and for their own people in their own region. Is supplying housing one of the potential things that the self-government organizations here in the NWT could or should be entertaining? If the federal and, therefore, the territorial government's ability to do this is diminishing, what is their capacity to potentially be part of the solution, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. People will pay if they have money. They will only get money if there are jobs. So it really comes down to whether or not our economy stays strong and whether people can afford to pay rent or pay mortgages. We could pass part of this challenge on to self-government. Some may take that on, but one of the principles we are operating on as the GNWT is we don't want to pass the problems onto somebody else without them having a way out of it unless they choose to take that on themselves. But self-governments are going to be the same situations they are in right now unless people have the money to pay their rent or pay their mortgage. That is really what it comes down to. If our economy is not strong, we are all in trouble here. Hopefully we keep a strong economy.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's all I have on this particular topic. Thank you.

Thank you. Page 2-177, pro-forma income statement.

Can committee now turn to 2-149?

Corporate summary, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Chairman, I am wondering if I have perhaps missed something. Has committee considered pages 146 and 147, active positions? There is something I would like to ask about there.

Does committee agree to go back to page 146 and 147?