Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I'm speaking more to public housing units as opposed to any type of private homeownership plan that we may have set out. But the fact remains that if we have caution about they can't use a woodstove or pellet stove safely, then maybe we should be questioning should we be putting them in the house by themselves, if that's an issue.

I see this as a challenge but also an opportunity, Mr. Chairman, because if we could put a pellet stove in all of our social housing units, we're either paying for pellets or we're paying for oil, but we're paying for something. Right now the trend seems to be leaning towards, and a foreseeable trend for quite some time, that pellets will be significantly cheaper. What I'm really getting at is the advantage of maintaining a house at a more reasonable cost, and, by the way, we're the ones maintaining the cost because, yet again, we either pay for pellets or we pay for the oil.

If it's a safety issue then, as I see it, all we need to do is sit down with somebody to make sure we go through them. Even you have said, Mr. Minister, in the context of pellet stoves, they are quite safe. I've lived up here almost 30 years and I know a lot of people are extremely familiar around woodstoves. If I may say personally, even my one year old knows how to walk safely around a woodstove. What I'm getting at is, yes, there are inherent risks in everything, but reasonably, I guess, if we're looking at trying to do business better, I don't think it's too much to ask and I'd like to see it as a policy shift that we change the way we do business in social housing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I didn't hear a specific question there, but I will allow the Minister to respond.

Thank you. I agree with the intent of what the Member is saying. It is complex though, Mr. Chairman. We could put pellet stoves into houses, for example, as a backup source of heat, maybe, but as a main source of heat, you have problems with distribution of heat within the house, you have difficulties if people go hunting for two days and don't have someone reliable to look after the house and freezing it up, cold weather freezing up the house anyway, if you can't distribute the heat properly. There are all sorts of challenges there that we'd have to look at. We want to achieve what the

Members are saying, but we'd have to do it in a way that isn't putting a unit at risk or people's own lives at risk.

We're also looking at the cost efficiency and the cost effectiveness, whether it's Toyo stoves or pellets or wood, what is the real savings here for us? I appreciate the comments. We want to move in that direction, but do it carefully. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Anything further, Mr. Hawkins?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll accept what the Minister said, so we can move forward on this issue.

Just a last point, can we expect some type of evaluation in the near future on whether the Toyo stove or pellet stoves or that type of methodology as we move forward? I think we're all shooting for the same ends, as he had pointed out, and I'd like to hear that if we are doing some evaluation or consideration, when can we expect some paper before us? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. We will provide that, recognizing that we don't have a lot of baseline data so it takes a little time to build it up. However, we will do that.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We'll now go back to our main estimates. Page 2-161. We're on infrastructure development, operations expenditures summary, $3.777 million.

---Agreed

Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a couple of questions for the Minister with regard to energy efficiency. Can the Minister tell this House exactly how many public housing units are supplied by electric water heaters? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Minister,

Mr. Chairman, I don't think we do supply any of them with electric water heaters that I can think of, unless there's some in Yellowknife. Electric water heaters are not that efficient. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you. That's good information to know because at one time, when I first had my unit, I had an electric water heater and I switched over and saved a lot of money. That is what I was alluding to. If the Housing Corporation can continue to finding solutions for that problem, it will work.

Another question I have, Mr. Chairman, I don't know if it falls under the department but I'll ask and let you decide. The question I have is, just recently the federal government...I know their budget has not come up yet, but they identified some funding for energy efficiency, I guess. I understand it may go up as far as $5,000 per house that's available. I'm just wondering, the money that the department is supplying for energy efficiency, is that over and above what the federal government is offering now? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. That question does relate to infrastructure development, so I'll allow the Minister to respond.

Mr. Chairman, yes. The money we have is above what the federal government is proposing. We don't have enough detail on the recent announcement by the federal government to be able to assess what that fund will do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Anything further, Mr. Pokiak?

Yes. One final follow-up with regard to that. From my understanding, the feds want that money upfront. I'm just wondering if private homeowners want to access that fund now, can they get that money from the territorial government sometime down the road? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I'm not sure if you're talking about the federal money. The federal money, yes. As we get more information on the guidelines and terms of reference. then we'll get it to the public in the Territories. My understanding, though, is that that money is meant for alternative technologies and ideas could be solar-heated water heaters or whatever it may be. I'm not sure that it goes as far as woodstoves, but it might.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are on infrastructure development, page 2-161, operations expenditures summary, $3.777 million.

---Agreed

Page 2-126, infrastructure development, grants and contributions, contributions, $1.596 million. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's a new line in this particular category, Mr. Chairman, entitled Supported Lease Program, for $226,000. It doesn't appear in any of the previous years' expenditures, $226,000. The explanation offered is that this is GNWT funding to provide property management services on our leased housing portfolio. Can somebody untangle that little knot for me, please? Just what is this expense for? Is it new or is it something that's been reprofiled, Mr. Chairman?