Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as you know, we've been discussing this for quite some time now in this Legislative Assembly and also our pre-budget consultation. This has been a main topic in every community that we visited. It has been an ongoing issue and I have to commend the government that there are programs in place to subsidize various initiatives. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, we must keep in mind that the oil price is going up, even at the community level. Especially the most isolated communities, the high cost of living itself is a huge burden on the communities, especially those that are fragile: the elders that have low incomes, the pensioners.

Mr. Speaker, part of the reason we put this motion forward is to identify that we have to conserve energy. It's energy efficiency. We talk about wood stoves, the pellet stoves, the North Slave Correctional Centre that we talked about today, how productive the choices were, the government's initiative, and we'd certainly like to see those kind of initiatives into small communities as well, whether they be commercial, whether it be residential. So those kind of initiatives will definitely be available initiative from this government, the 15th Assembly, the 16th Assembly, and years to come.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to highlight that with this new initiative, the energy efficiency loan program, we talk about the household income through the Housing Program, but this is also beyond the Housing Program, where there's a burden where we relieve all people that make money that are average earners, there's let's say 80,000 cap and this is going beyond that. We're assisting Northwest Territories residents, and this will be very beneficial for the community members, especially those who are living in the most isolated communities as well.

Mr. Speaker, at this time I'd just like to highlight the positive initiative that this government has done and there's more to come. Especially with this kind of motion I think we need to move forward. I certainly hope Cabinet will take this into consideration as one of their high priorities.

I realize the Department of ITI and Department of ENR are working on all kinds of initiatives to conserve energy and promote even more energy efficiencies in the Northwest Territories. There's also news from the federal government that money is coming forward on energy efficiencies and we, around the table here, are looking

forward to that initiative, also, Mr. Speaker. With whatever the outcome is with the federal budget, whether there be the 1.5 billion that's been thrown around, then we need to move forward. This is one of the initiatives that we want to move forward from our government, the Northwest Territories government perspective. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the motion. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today, too, in support of this motion that we put forward today. It's well known that we all believe the price of fuel is very expensive and it's costing a lot of homeowners a lot of hardship, especially when you have a diesel rider on top of the cost of power. I think for homeowners, Mr. Speaker, it's important that a motion like this that the government on that side can listen to a motion put forward here, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, there's a lot of little things that we can do as government, and I think putting this motion forward is just one of those steps that will address the homeowners that really require assistance to make their homes more energy efficient. Putting the wood stoves into the public housing units might be an answer for government, but these are just some small solutions that need to be addressed.

I thank my colleagues here, you know, for coming out with a motion like this. I think we've done a lot of homework in terms of what we're trying to accomplish. I just want to stand up today and say I am in support of this motion and I hope that government will listen to the motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. To the motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, I, too, stand in support of this motion. I think it reflects very well on the themes that most of us talked about earlier today in our statements and our questions on energy and climate and what can we do to make a difference. I very firmly believe that one of the expectations and one of the mandates that we have as legislators here is to show leadership where we can put taxpayers' money to good use, demonstrate that leadership, and provide as this motion really amounts to, Mr. Speaker. This puts an incentive at the hands of homeowners, and I hope of all consumers in the Northwest Territories, to be able to do their part for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, to become more efficient, become cleaner in the way we live and in the so-called footprint that we have on our environment.

Mr. Speaker, I was able to take advantage of this as a homeowner and a family in the NWT last year. My wife and I decided to do some upgrades in our own home here in Yellowknife. We added an extra inch of insulation, we put some new siding on, changed all of our windows and doors, put in two new clothes washing appliances. It was a considerable investment, Mr. Speaker; just over $25,000 or so. But through the EnerGuide program that the federal government up to a certain time and then our territorial government assisted in, I got the benefit of some expert advice on what I could do that would really make a difference in my home. I also got I think it was just under $700 back as a rebate that was proportional to the investment that I made. So it wasn't a lot of money, Mr. Speaker, compared to the overall outlay, but that's not what I was looking for. It provided me with, as I say, that incentive. The government was showing leadership and I got some good advice out of it.

I'd also like to say, pass on a compliment, Mr. Speaker. In respect of that program I was able to take advantage of it and I know that others in the NWT, were able to do that, even after the federal government pulled the pin on it. Our government, the Department of ENR last year said this is important, we're going to continue it. Even if those scoundrels in Ottawa backed out of it, we took up the cause and made it happen. So let's continue on with this, Mr. Speaker.

The motion calls for interest-free loans up to a maximum of $5,000 per household. It includes stoves, high-efficiency heaters, solar panels, insulation and siding, the kind of thing I did in my house. But it's not limited to that. I hope that in taking this motion, Mr. Speaker, motions of course do not result in direct action, but they are strong signals of advice and suggestion to the government and I hope the government takes the intent of this and looks at any and all possible ways that it could implement it.

I'd especially like to see this program apply, Mr. Speaker, to vehicles. We have the availability and the success of hybrid vehicles now being shown. Even in the area of recreational vehicles, Mr. Speaker, snowmobiles and outboard motors now have much more efficient and cleaner four-stroke technology. Could we potentially make an interest-free loan available to assist people to buy these? They're very much a part of our northern lifestyle and, indeed, livelihood for some people.

So, Mr. Speaker, I will conclude my statements there. I believe this shows leadership and I sincerely hope that the government will take this up and come back with something that reflects the efforts that we're trying to put into it today, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the motion. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, will be supporting the motion that's before us today. I think it's a step in the right direction. We need to give advantages to our residents and opportunities to our residents to access a pool of money so that if they want to look at energy-efficient upgrades to their home, they have another option. I think it certainly is a step in the right direction, although I would say it may not be enough. The motion calls for a proposal of $5 million with a maximum of $5,000. I would suggest that might be on the low side. If you're doing a major renovation such as siding or insulation work on your house, $5,000 doesn't go too far.

The other point that I wanted to make in supporting the motion is I do hope the government takes this motion seriously. They haven't taken every motion that has come before the House as serious as they probably should, but this one, I do believe, deserves their attention. I wouldn't want to see the government rush out and have to hire 10 people to administer a program like this. I don't think that's necessary. I think we have the wherewithal within our ranks at the Housing Corporation or at BDIC to carry out a program such as the one that's being proposed. I wouldn't

want to see a blank cheque to the government to rush out and hire 10 more people to administer this.

So, Mr. Speaker, again, I do want to say we are on the road, most of us here, a couple of times, north and south to communities. The biggest thing we heard in the communities we went to was the cost of living, the cost of power; that was first and foremost on many residents' minds. This is a direct result of those consultations that Regular Members took in the communities.

So, Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting the motion that's before us today and it is nice to see our work that we've done in the territory come to fruition today with this motion. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. To the motion. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, am in support of this motion. Since I have been here, I have often talked about bread and butter issues about trying to make sure that we can help the average citizen do good. This motion speaks to the fact that our side of the House says we need to develop simple programs that everybody can jump on board and do.

A lot of people out there know we can come up with energy-efficient appliances, but the problem is it's always the upfront cost. They know it's the right decision, but it's always the cost. This motion speaks to that, to help people make the right decision. It helps steer folks in the right direction and I am very proud that this side of the House is recognizing this. Above all, average citizens qualify for this. Whether you can afford something or not, it helps steer people in the right direction.

So, Mr. Speaker, in closing, I support this fully. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I also rise to offer my full support of this motion for all the good reasons that my colleagues on this side of the House have already provided. I just wanted to just touch on a couple of issues that I would like to address with respect to the department which carries out the motion. I would like to see some cost-free energy efficient audits for private homeowners at no cost that access this program. So the government can go out after everybody's done their renovations and access money to make energy efficient changes in the household, we actually have a monitoring system in place that actually measures the success of the program, so we can come back and say we did get our money's worth out of this program, the $5 million we got back within six months of energy savings here in the NWT. I think that could be easily measured.

Like my friend Mr. Ramsay was saying I don't think we need 10 extra staff people in the GNWT to go out and do this. I think communities can take it upon themselves to carry out this energy efficiency audit that the government will be proposing on a lot of its own public commercial buildings.

Also, just with the motion, it also states that the $5 million for the program, to me that's on the low end, but we have to start somewhere and I think the $5 million is a good start. The $5,000 on a non-means-tested basis, I have pros and cons on that because of issues I did raise earlier with respect to remote communities. If they were going to attach freight costs associated with these energy-efficient appliances being shipped into the communities, then that's great too, or over and above this $5,000. I think people who access the $5,000 and use half of that money just to get the appliances into the community is not going to do them much good. So a lot of people in the small communities are not going to bother paying back the loan, should they have access to it.

So I would like to see that portion of any energy efficient costs that are incurred over and above this $5,000 like freight and shipping and handling, installation and maintenance. I think that's something we have to take into consideration when looking at a loan program like this.

With that being said, Mr. Speaker, I think it's a good start and we have to get the ball rolling and we have to be chiefs of our land, stewards of our land, and we have to show the rest of Canada that we only do produce .3 percent of total emissions here in Canada, in the North, but on a per capita basis we produce twice as much as the average Canadian. So numbers can always be juggled to make us look good or bad. I think this is a good start on a good path to energy efficiency here in the NWT and cost savings for everybody. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. To the motion. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, stand to support this motion. I think it's a good motion. I thank the Members for bringing it forward. I was looking at the one whereas here where it says "provide the means and incentive." They will provide the means but the incentive is going to be realized in the long run where you make savings over a long period of time. I fully support the energy efficiency loan program. We have $128 million in subsidies. A lot of programs are run by the government. A lot of programs are means tested, so a lot of people do not qualify for that. I think this is a good start to having taxpayers qualifying for a lot of the programs and subsidies that they are paying into. I think that's a good part of this motion. I fully support the motion. I think it's a good motion and it's a start. The more we can do, Mr. Speaker, to provide programs and some subsides to a lot of people out there that do work hard but are just over the threshold, the more we can do to help them and they are not asking for handouts, like I say, they will pay it back. The more we can do for them the better it is for us and those people we represent.

So I do support the motion and I thank the Members for Monfwi and Nunakput for bringing it forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. To the motion. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to stand and speak in support of this motion today. I think it is a good idea. I think it's simple. It doesn't

have to be complicated. I think, as a government, sometimes we like to make things complicated, but I think people would understand and buy into the principle that it is a non-interest-bearing, interest-free loan over a period of time with the intention that this money you would save on your utilities would be what you would use to pay back the loan. It would be like a revolving fund. It would go back in and then once they've paid it back, of course that makes the money available for someone else to take advantage of the same program.

I think it could be very successful. I agree with Mr. Ramsay; I don't think we need to hire an army of people to administer it. We saw a few years back where we did the Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program where a lot of people accessed that program. It was fairly easy to determine and ascertain who actually was going to put the $10,000 towards the purchase of a home. I think we should keep it simple. This does not mean that there will not be other things to add. For example, the Housing Corporation with any programs for their folks or federal government programs that come out. This is tangible. So much of what we have seen on energy so far has been studies. I think we spent $1 million in the last government studying and consulting. This is tangible.

This is something that can go into somebody's home and I can tell you from firsthand experience, Mr. Speaker, a pellet stove is very nice. My husband had one installed while I was up here last time and I went home this weekend and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It can be aesthetically pleasing. They are energy conserving and they are all natural. The pellets are just held together by the natural residue from the woodchips and the sawdust, so it's a very environmental product. Of course, there are other ways people may choose to conserve energy. So, Mr. Speaker, with that, I will be supporting the motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the motion. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say a few words to this motion. Mr. Speaker, let me just start off by saying that I support the motion in principle. I am approving this as instruction to the government to look into this issue. But having read this, there are some boundaries and parameters that we need to ask the government to work on.

Mr. Speaker, we, as Canadians, live in a paradoxical location because while the environmental issues are such a hot issue right now and certainly an urgent issue for us to address, I think it's a very complicated issue for us because we live in a country that is mostly cold with far distances. It makes us probably use more energy than any other people in other parts of the world. I think in the North, that situation is even more intensified because we are colder than the rest of Canada and a lot of our communities are remote. By virtue of that, we do use up probably a lot more energy and produce a lot more greenhouse gases per person.

Mr. Speaker, I learned recently that a house that burns 4,500 litres of diesel fuel or fuel produces six tons of gas. I don't think my house uses up that much energy, but even at half of that I didn't realize I was producing that much energy by just living. I think this motion is in order for the government to act on something that would reduce the use of fuel and energy and to reduce the cost of that. There are certain things I think we should keep in mind. I am not certain right now how we can apply this. At $5,000, if everybody taps into this, we are looking at about 1,000 households. So I will be looking at the government to see how we can make sure this gets distributed between larger cities and smaller communities. Also, I will be looking to see how this would be divided between the house owners versus tenants. I will be looking to see how this is going to be administered, because I don't know how we can set up a program without having to have people run those. I don't know of any program that can run on its own.

Mr. Speaker, I must say I did take advantage of buying energy-efficient appliances and when you take it to the dump, they will give you a little certificate and they will give you some money back from Arctic Energy Alliance. I will be looking to see the details of the layout, I mean of how this program can be delivered.

Now I have a question also about wood pellets. I think a pellet stove is great. I think the North Slave Correctional Centre has something there that the government should spend a lot more attention to. I think that's actually not a government project and it's not owned by government. There was a boiler that was needed. This guy with the know-how came and we have to look at the supply of pellets. I would be looking to the government to look further into the potential of increased uses on pellets and other added sources.

We have a very interesting situation also, Mr. Speaker, in reviewing this energy issue, I am not even sure who the lead Minister in government is on this. We have the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, we have the Minister responsible for greenhouse gas, we have the Minister responsible for big industry who is also responsible for energy issues. I think it actually might help for Cabinet to sit around and see if they are going to roll out an energy plan, how they are going to work on coordinating that.

Mr. Speaker, it is true that at least half of greenhouse gases that are going to be produced over the next number of years will be from the major industries. That's another paradox of our country and our region, in that we want to save and we want to reduce the use of energy but we are the biggest beneficiaries of extracting resources and energy sources. If that is the case, that pipelines and the diamonds and all the big industries are going to be producing most greenhouse gas, obviously that's one area that the government has to look at. I support the industries, Mr. Speaker. I support development, but if we are really going to make an impact on how to use energy efficiently and how to reduce greenhouse gas, I think that's one area the government has to look at as well.

I do look around and I am surprised that the boiler that we have at the North Slave Correctional Centre, I don't think the government has really looked into how we can use this for other buildings. What I am saying is this motion is just a small part of the bigger picture that we need to work on. I have not seen the government working as comprehensively as possible, but I do look around and see it is so expensive to fuel houses and run vehicles, but I just don't know why we have such big houses and big vehicles.

I could see for the safety of roads, maybe vehicles, the bigger the better. But the houses? I don't want this

program to be an incentive to have bigger houses. I don't mean that, but not to have it means tested, I think that's something we want to review. I am going to approve it in principle. I would like the Minister to look at this possibility, look at the details of how this can be delivered/administered. I have to tell you, Mr. Speaker, I do support it, but I am going to want to see the details about how this could be carried out.

On that note, I will conclude my statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lee. To the motion. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me first say that we applaud Members for taking this initiative to bring forward a motion that speaks to an issue that we've been grappling with for some time here. As Members know, we are preparing to table an energy plan, a comprehensive energy plan, that will have a number of different initiatives within, but one of those certainly will be energy efficiency financing/assistance of some nature. We are going to sit down further with committee and talk about how that can best be achieved.

Let me say, though, that we are certainly listening on this side of the House and we agree with Members that the administrative burden in such a program must be kept to a minimum. The end goal here has to be to get money to people to help them make these choices that cost additional money upfront, but pay themselves back over time. We think government has a role to play.

So whether or not it will be a forgivable loan program, interest-free loan program, I am thinking we are leaning more towards having some grants available to homeowners. Also for vehicles, potentially. Mr. Speaker, I think that we want to ensure and take the Member's point, that these shouldn't be means tested, but I would also urge Members to keep in mind that there is a lot of federal programming. It's good timing. There's a lot of energy programming to be rolled out; eco efficiency funds. We don't have a handle on the detail of those programs yet, but it is our hope that we can marry some of our initiative and programs with those federal ones so that our money and the money of our residents will lever additional federal investment. We think that's important here.

So we've heard what Members have said and let me assure you that we agree this can't be administratively burdensome, it has to get money into people's pockets to help them make those choices whether they are replacing their appliances, putting in a wood pellet stove, a wood stove or in fact making a decision to buy a hybrid or a Smart car.

Mr. Speaker, let me also say that in line with our custom and since this motion is directing Cabinet to take action, Cabinet will abstain from the vote on this motion. I want to again say that we appreciate the work that ordinary Members have done in putting this motion together and we do look forward to working with them in the coming weeks so that we can collectively table an energy plan that has some real action and provides benefits to our residents who need to save money on their heating bills. We also want to work to instil a conservation ethic, because we do have to do something to get a handle on our greenhouse gas emissions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Before I call a vote on the motion, I will allow the mover of the motion to wrap up comments. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (English not provided)

Mr. Speaker, this motion that has been brought forward in this House is the voice of the Northwest Territories. We have heard over and over throughout the Northwest Territories, north and south, in the most isolated communities, that this has been an issue in the past; the high cost of living and so forth. We have listened. We have brought the motion forward based on their needs. We must take it into consideration. This is not the voice of us sitting around the table here; it is those people, 43,000 people living in the North.

That's why we are here, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we must take that into consideration and we must walk the talk. We do a lot of talking in this House. Now is the time to put our two cents into it and then move forward with it. We talk about waiting for federal funding, but we have our own responsibility as the Northwest Territories government. Let's do something. Let's do our own initiative and move forward with it.

At the same time, Mr. Speaker, we must think in the broader perspective. Mr. Braden touched on four-wheelers or skidoos in the communities, outboard motors and vehicles. Those will come into play as well down the road.

With respect to the motion, I again would like to reiterate that this is the voice of the North and we must act on it. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the motion. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.