Thank you, Mr. Triggs. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you. I was kind of under the impression that the Appeals Tribunal decisions were conclusive, final and binding, but I guess in some instances they have not been. I am a bit concerned about the arm's length, as you describe it, nature of the Appeals Tribunal from the Workers' Compensation Board. I would like to ask, Mr. Chair, if, to the knowledge of the people who are presenting here today, if anybody from the Governance Council or the Workers' Compensation Board has ever, I don't want to use the word tampered, I want to use the word consulted, even with members of the Appeals Tribunal when a case was being heard. What kind of interaction would be necessary to have between the Appeals Tribunal members and anybody on the Governance Council or in the senior management or the WCB in hearing appeal? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Triggs.

Thank you, Mr. Triggs. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Just a final comment on the Appeals Tribunal. I just find it curious that an appeal panel or an Appeals Tribunal that is comprised entirely of laypeople could deal with matters that are highly technical from a medical and sometimes from a legal perspective and not have to rely on pretty much a consistent advisor in those areas in assisting or arriving at their decisions. That is comment. I find that very curious. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Next on the list, I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have questions. What I am hearing here seems to have a familiar ring in terms of what I experienced with the residential school claims and the students in the Northwest Territories. We agreed at some point as parties to the claims. It seems that, in principle, we agree with it, but when it gets down to the administration part, it seems like us in terms of our claims in Ottawa, some bureaucratic processes that pumps it up and shoots it back. It has a severe impact on people who are going through this process. Sometimes there is verification on the claim. There are witnesses. These people are provided with some advice and some support to go through it, because it is traumatic being off the job, away from work or whatever. It is a traumatic period of my life in terms of our turmoil in the community and your family, just like the residents who claim. Is this a process that we are once the governance committee or whoever rules the tribunal says, yes, this is what we ruled on? Do what they have done. It is similar to what we went through in the residential school claims in the Northwest Territories. We found out through that process. It is aggravation and pain that we had to go through because some of the senior bureaucrats that put doors in the way that said uh-oh and we kept getting phone calls. I guess as a legislator, that is why I am coming to voice my concern here. Is this what is happening here? If it is, what can we do to straighten that out?

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chair, in regards to the legislation that is coming forward next week, that is where we see making the fundamental changes to ensure that the rules and responsibility of the different groups that are involved in the workers' compensation process is clearly spelled out in legislation. That is where we can make the change to ensure that it is doing what it is supposed to be doing, and also ensure that we do have those overlaps or loopholes where we are able to clarify that through the legislative changes. That is the process we have seen, also through these recommendations and the process we are going through here is to ensure that we improve the system so we avoid these situations where you have policies and regulations that interpret one way for one group and basically interpret for someone else; that they are clear, precise and also that they are doing the job that they should be.

Just to answer the Member's question, we have to realize that this process has been around since 1977. We have legislation that has been changed pretty well once since then which was the Act Now document. There was major public consultation in that. We implemented phase one. We are now in the process of implementing phase two. I think we have learned from mistakes that have been made. More importantly, we have an opportunity in front of us here today and next week to really improve on exactly what the legislation is but, more importantly, having that input so that we can make sure that these things are avoided in the future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the process, as the Minister has indicated, has been around since 1970. I guess through the trials and errors of hard workers of this process right here, I just want to see in the future that history doesn't repeat itself. Many officials talk about the gaps and we hope we can fill these gaps. Again, as I said in my opening statement, services to the workers in a fair and just manner that they receive as the Workers' Compensation Board will have the resources to have at their disposal to argue a case. The same thing a worker should have. That is all I am going to say. Workers should have the same type of resources available to them as any other person in this process here. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on the list I have Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If that concludes committee's discussion of motion 31, could we go on to motion 32? Is that our process here this afternoon?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Does that conclude comments on 31? A short question on 31 is being indicated. Do you want to defer to Ms. Lee? Ms. Lee.

Thank you. I just have a question on the reviews and appeals. Are the workers who are going through reviews and appeal process; it was mentioned that the appeals office has legal advice on its own. Do the workers have access to legal opinion and independent legal and medical opinion going through that? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Triggs.

Thank you, Mr. Triggs. Follow-up, Ms. Lee.

Thank you. So I take that to be that the workers who are going through the process don't have automatic access or any access to legal advisors of their own other than the worker's advisor. Is that right?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Triggs.

Thank you, Mr. Triggs. Is there anything further, Ms. Lee? Thank you, committee. We will now move on to page 3 of 6, committee motion 32. Questions on number 32. Mr. Braden.