This is page numbers 143 - 180 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister of Finance for that explanation. The conference on family violence, I guess it's nice to give the providers of that service from around the territory an opportunity to get together to share information and coordinate efforts and things like that. It is $120,000. That's something I can live with, Madam Chair.

The survey, though, is another story. I know the Premier mentioned earlier about baseline data. I mean I'm not an expert in this field by any stretch, Madam Chair, but if you want baseline data, I don't think you need to look any further than the RCMP and the reports that come down on incidents of assault, domestic violence. You can find that information out. In addition to that, we have community-based social workers who can tell you what's going on. So I don't buy the fact that we need baseline data. I'm not sure who the 750 people that you'd be talking to, who they are, which organizations would direct you on who to talk to and whatnot. So I'd like a little bit more information on this survey, if I could, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, for the financial breakdown, I can provide that to the Members. For the detail of the actual survey work, I'd have to go to the Premier. But the financial breakdown has been provided. Survey design is $3,500; interviewer salaries is $30,000; travel for operations, $26,000; printing and communication costs, $5,500; data capture and systems, $5,000; data processing and preparation of files and documentation, another $5,000, for a total of $75,000. For detail of the survey, I'd have to go to the Premier. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 172

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I wouldn't mind if the Minister responsible could give us an explanation on why it's necessary to get this other baseline data when I think if you look in the right places, you can find it. My colleague Mr. Yakeleya said it earlier, we know what's going on out there; let's do something about it. Spending money on surveys and studies and

reports and paying consultants, I think we're past that. As one of my other colleagues mentioned, that's yesterday's news. So let's move on with things and put the $75,000 towards something where it can make a real difference, Madam Chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again I want to remind Members that we have, we're doing this in partnership with the Coalition Against Family Violence. Those are the people who are the front-line workers. Those are the people who are facing the issues every day. Those are the people, you know, the family support centre in Hay River, the Tuk women's and children's shelter, the Inuvik Transition House, the Alison McAteer House, Sutherland House in Fort Smith, the Centre for Northern Families, the Status of Women Council, these are front-line workers. I think it's probably frustrating for them, they know the business, they know what they need. They're asking for it. They're saying we need baseline data. They're saying we need to look at programs for children who witness abuse. We need to get together and improve our training on shelter workers. These are the kind of things they want us to do. Now for us to start second guessing what they need I think is probably a bit demoralizing for them. So I have to support them and say, look, they are working along with the NGOs, many of them very poorly paid, and we're taking a lot of direction from them. But we need to have the resources to be able to back up the work that was done. This is phase two of a report that came out a good probably two or three years ago since we first did this. So, Madam Chair, I don't want to guess at what they need for baseline data. I'll take their front-line experience and say let's build with them. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Ramsay.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Minister for that. I'm not here today to demoralize anybody. What I'm here to do is my job and ask questions. I hear also from the front-line workers where there's not enough money and resources, especially for the NGOs. So if we are going to spend $75,000 on a survey and then we've got other NGOs saying we're not doing enough for them, there has to be a balance somewhere and I think we do have to ask some questions. The list of organizations that the Premier had mentioned that were going to be part of this survey, I'm wondering if there's going to be any men that are going to be interviewed in this process, Madam Chair, because as I've heard from some of my constituents, violence is a two-way street. I think it behooves the government to actually stand up and do something not just for women, but for men as well. There's a lot of violence that happens in the family that is done by men, but it also happens, as a matter of fact, where women are the culprits and the instigators of violence, and I think men have to have just as much say in any type of survey that we're going to conduct here because it does happen. I have heard stories, horror stories, about that happening to men as well. So let's be fair in this and I think I'd like to ask the Premier, are men going to be included in the survey? Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Premier.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a Framework for Action on family violence. It includes women; it includes children; it includes men. It's family violence. We're not putting a priority on one or the other. We're looking at all aspects. Now, when the front-line workers want baseline data, I'm sure it's going to include that discussion; who's going to be surveyed, what kind of baseline data do we need and so on. But it is family violence, not against any one sector. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Ramsay.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. No, and again, I don't want the folks that are out there that are working in the area of family violence, I want them to understand we are going through this process today in an effort to make things better for the work that they're doing out there in the field and it's oftentimes a very thankless job and I do thank them very much for the job that they provide this territory. So with that, thanks.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Next on the list I have Mr. Braden.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I, too, wanted to put a little bit of a focus on the survey and the conference items there. While they were contained in a briefing that committee got, Madam Chair, I don't recall the details myself. So this is not a surprise in here, but I think it would be, it's not very often that money is attached to the descriptions of these things that committee hears about. That comes up now and we're looking at $75,000, for instance, for the survey and I believe Mr. Handley told us that this would cover 750 people. So in one sense it boils down to $100 a person to do a survey. Without knowing the depth or the scope or the methodology, I don't know if that's good value or not.

I would, I guess, make a similar comment about a conference; $120,000 for 120 people is a thousand dollars a person. Madam Chair, good research, well conducted, has great value, and I think the same kind of thing can be said for conferences and meetings. When they're well focussed, they have a good objective and everyone is well prepared. They can, indeed, make consensus and implementing programs very, very successful as opposed to those that aren't. But I think at $200,000 for these two new initiatives, perhaps what committee is questioning here is value for money and wanting to ensure that these are not just efforts to go out and do yet another study health related. The Department of Health, of course, has quite a reputation for doing a lot of studies and conferences too, which I think sometimes are put together as a way of sort of helping some people feel good about what they're doing, but what is the real value to the system, back to the communities and back to the people? Those are the things that I'm challenging in here. I don't want to take this away from the Action Plan on Family Violence, but put a flag on, as I say, making sure we're getting value for money. Because there are tremendous needs on the front lines that even $195,000 could make quite a difference for. Madam Chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Roland.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, for the record I should also state that the

package that was put together on responding to the Framework for Action II on family violence is, as we heard earlier, a question that should go through the business plan. It was initiated through that process. This piece has come through this avenue because of the lateness of our fiscal picture as a result of the federal budget. It will go back into the business plan for the next five years, but what is proposed here, for example, in this funding through the Executive, one is, yes, the development of baseline data, as well as to fund the conference. If you look, some of the additional information we have is it's a territorial leadership and policy forum. So as we proceed forward, we would need to know in what areas should we be highlighting some additional expenditures. So I think that information through this work can be used for that benefit, as we proceed down this path of looking at investing in this package. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Braden.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

No further questions, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Next I have Ms. Lee.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to add my view or just add my thoughts on this topic to sort of enrich the conversation, perhaps. I don't know. Let me just put my two cents into this. In looking at this, at first I looked at this and thought, I guess, it is an item that may raise an eyebrow or two. But if you really look at it, maybe it's the name, maybe they should change the word "conference" to something else because if you look at it as an assembly in the North, it's very important. We put high value in bringing community people together into one place, wherever that might be, to exchange information and to get their input into what's going on on the ground.

I want to tell you, in February, when the Status of Women Council organized a Joining the Circle women's conference, that was a huge undertaking and I believe I made a statement in the House stating that the keynote speaker who came from Toronto, she told me, she said she could not believe how permeating the issue of family violence was. We could not move on with our agenda because no matter what the topic was -- it could have been about community capacity building or it could have been about leadership, how to run for office, it could have been about how to put a proposal together -- just the topic of family violence came up everywhere. The most popular session they had was the healing session. The women that were there felt empowered to learn that other women leaders were going through the same thing and they were also empowered to learn what was being taught at the conference and knowing that they could take that to their communities and do something with that. In fact, out of that conference, the Status of Women Council is organizing a two-day workshop at the end of the month to debrief all that went on and they're going to put up strategies together for the government to act on.

So I'm thinking, I think it's important for us to think of this as a, you know, the community government conferences. There have been a series of conferences, very well organized by NWT Association of Communities, to learn about the new formula and the New Deal for the communities, the whole water and subsidy programs that's quite complex. It's a professional development course, as well as learning, as well as sharing information, as well as crying together. I mean we, all the women had to talk about what they were going through with respect to family violence issues and how the family violence issues are affecting every aspect of our lives in our communities. So I think I could see that if the headline tomorrow is "Government is Approving $195,000 for Conference" that may not look so good. But I think that we know enough in this gathering to know that it costs money to bring people together. I believe it costs 40 to 70 thousand dollars a day to have us meet here. It is important for the people who are caregivers or who are working with people who are suffering from family violence, people who are trying to do something about what to do about our family violence issues, that they gather together. We know that to bring 120 people together, it costs money, and it costs money to travel, it costs money to accommodate them, it costs money to bring people together. It's not just for them to get together to just get together, it is an action place, it is a thinking place, and I'm sure there will be lots of good recommendations coming out of that.

So I just wanted to add that to the context and to also add to a comment made about the fact that we need to address the issue of family violence against men. I do understand that there are men who are victims of family violence and other forms of violence, and the government has a role to play in addressing their needs. But I don't think we should ever lose sight of the fact that the overwhelming majority of victims of family violence are women and overwhelming perpetuators of family violence are men. It's not all men, but that's just the way the stats lie. So I just don't think, in putting forward the good suggestion that government should look after the men who are victims of violence too, we should in any way underestimate or undermine the overwhelming stats that show it is the women who are locked up in a house and raped repeatedly for days and left to...We've had that happen in our communities in the last two days. The most violent crimes committed, in family violence or sexual assaults, are done by men against women. So I just want to make sure that we put this comment in proper context. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. As I stated earlier, this is the initial start of the response by our government towards looking at Framework for Action II. The rest of this will fall through the business plan process. We do need to get some of this information as we proceed and put a framework together on how we would react as a government and where our investments would best be made. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Is there anything further, Ms. Lee? Thank you. Next on the list, I have Mr. Pokiak.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 13th, 2007

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Calvin Pokiak

Calvin Pokiak Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to follow up. I heard what the Premier had to say regarding the survey and the conference. There were about 750 respondents and 120 participants for these two items. I would like to ask the Minister with regard to surveys. I am pretty sure that all the shelters that are across the Territories have intakes that they work with. Can they take those intakes from the region and the communities and say, look, if there are numbers there, it tells us that there is a problem. I am sure that, while the intakes that

they have, it will show that without doing a survey. We could put that money for the front-line workers. Thank you, Madam Chair.