Excellent. Moving on to Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue of the debt we carry and how it’s reflected on the territorial books — has the NWT Housing Corp ever worked with the Finance section to maybe get it off our books? As we all know, the territorial government is burdened with a debt wall, and a large part of our debt wall is stressed out by the fact that the Housing Corp carries a significant load as well as, of course, the NWT Power Corp. I’m curious as to whether the NWT Housing Corp has worked with the Finance Minister to see if we could get that off of what is seen as a prescribed debt.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There have been discussions with the Department of Finance. It’s the call of the Department of Finance. They’ve made the decision — which is reflected in how these numbers are portrayed — they deem to be in the best interests of the government. So yes, there have been discussions.

I appreciate the answer there. As I understand it, this Housing Corp debt was actually paid off through the federal government through its payments. Out of the total outstanding debt we have on the books, what portion of funding should we expect from the federal government to cover that?

Mr. Chairman, CMHC is contributing $10.5 million annually to servicing this debt.

Mr. Chairman, I would dispute that on the basis

that CMHC is contributing almost the

full amount of what our typical payment is. If I understand it correctly, our CMHC funding runs out the same time as our debt is paid off. There’s a miraculous conversion on how that works. I’m just curious, because it’s a debt that we’ve been burdened to carry because of the federal government, and yet they’re paying it. I’m just not sure why we need it reflected in this manner.

I would encourage the Minister to step up to get some of this debt carried off our books. I think it’s impeding the territorial government’s ability to do its job.

We often talk about the debt while we talk about a reflection of the challenges we have because it’s been loaded down by burdens that aren’t necessarily our own. I would encourage the Minister to step up that discussion and, when information becomes available, inform us as to where that discussion goes with Finance, as well as potentially Finance Canada if there needs to be an exemption from that.

I’d just like to point out that the Member commented this is a miraculous conversion in 2038 with debt and payments all ceasing. But the other big piece that’s going to impact us, of course, is that all the O&M money will have, by that time, been backed out, and we’ll be short cumulatively over $300 million. So “miracle” might not be the term we’re using in 2038 as we struggle to offset this debt.

But we will talk further with the Department of Finance. As we move through next year’s business-planning process, we can discuss in more detail those types of circumstances. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Hawkins.

Can I get some type of commitment from the Minister to supply me with some information to show that they’ve worked forward on this initiative and to show me what either the Department of Finance — I assume he means by Finance our Department of Finance — or potentially any type of positioning they’re taking with the federal government? I just want to see that we’re working on this. I’d kind of like something before the end of summer on this problem.

I’d also like to see if the Minister can come to Regular Members; maybe we can provide some support from the lobby position to raise this issue, with potentially Finance Canada, to express our concern — our grave concern — with this problem. The debt is reflected on our books, and as I’ve said before, it affects our operations and our ability to borrow what one could describe as good debt. Thank you.

And for a response, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We work closely with Finance and the Office of the Auditor General on an ongoing basis on a lot of these issues. As I indicated in a previous answer, we’re looking for a response. We’re awaiting a response from the Office of the Auditor General in terms of how this particular debt

is treated on our books and with the GNWT. This may give us some clearer insight and direction on how to move forward. But we will be very happy to report back to committee on this and other issues. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Beaulieu. Sorry, did I skip ahead there? Mr. Hawkins, did you have something further?

Mr. Chairman, I don’t sit on the EDI Committee, so therefore, I probably wouldn’t have access to that correspondence unless it is specifically requested. So I would ask the Minister to make sure he informs all Members of any developments that the Auditor General has coming forward. I’d be very interested in the position from that office. Thank you.

We’ll communicate; we’ll work with the chair of EDI. But if you wish, we can also make sure that Members are copied. Thank you.

Thank you for that. Anything further, Mr. Hawkins? Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Chair,

I don’t want to belabour

this debt issue, but I have just one more point of clarification here. Reflected here as an expense is $12 million in debt. Indications are that the debt payment on $12 million in long-term debt is $71.5 million. But in our summary of net debt, estimating borrowing capacity earlier in the Main Estimates by the NWT Housing Corporation, the debt is reflected as $26.397 million. I just wanted to know what the discrepancies were.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Anderson.

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Nothing further, Mr. Beaulieu? Any further questions? No further questions on 2-157, Debt Repayment: $12.053 million, agreed?

NWT Housing Corporation, Debt Repayment,

Operations Expenditure Summary: $12.053 million, approved.

We’ll move on to Programs and District Operations, Operations Expenditure Summary: $18.592 million, information item. Any questions? Yes, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a motion. I move that this committee strongly recommend that the Housing Corporation take immediate action to assess and develop a strategy that focuses on accessible living opportunities for families that include disabled persons.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The motion is on the floor and is about to be distributed. To the motion, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman. As

I

talked about the other day in the Minister’s

opening comments of this department, I feel that people living with disabilities are extra-challenged when public housing isn’t out there or available to suit their needs. Furthermore, when you have a family in a situation where there is a parent who has a disability or a child with a disability, our stock of public housing seems to again be lacking. The challenge, in my opinion, is that there isn’t a progressive plan to create suitable housing. I find that these families tend to be left out, waiting and waiting for quite a significant amount of time because an appropriate stock of housing doesn’t exist.

The intent of this motion is to look at all areas. I’m sure that a lot of this information exists within the local LHOs. They would have that type of information, if a family came forward and if anyone in that family had a disability, and what type of suitability, in the sense of housing, needs to be available. It’s quite exciting that this motion is coming during Disabilities Week, because it further highlights the challenges that people live with. It’s the principle of what I see as public government that should be out there making sure lives are made easier. It should certainly underscore the fact that we should try to make sure they have a fulfilling life and a quality of life that we can provide for them. I don’t see our public housing stocks meeting that challenge. I don’t think it’s an excessive challenge to ask them to take an assessment of what they have on their landscape and start planning for this need.

Mr. Chairman, I’m just going to close by pointing out that I’ve got a couple of constituents who are in the family scenario. They have a disability, whether it’s the parent or the child, and the fact is they sit

and wait. Nothing is available, and it’s horrible that they’re in dire need for public housing. But the fact is we can’t get public housing to suit them.

That’s kind of why the motion’s here. In my view, it will help raise the standard of quality of life for people who’ve been challenged. I think this is an application that can be applied throughout our North and throughout our communities, because I

think every LHO will know their area best.

I certainly hope a strategy will look not just at the North but at local communities as well. Thank you.