The motion is in order. The motion is being circulated. On the motion, Mr. Beaulieu.

Aboriginal employment for all employees is low. It’s 31

per

cent across the

Territory. I think our objective is to try to achieve 51 per cent, according to the Affirmative Action Policy. For all employees, this department has an affirmative action number of 27 per cent.

The aboriginal percentage of employees in management is 17 per cent, or one position of the six senior management positions. The committee felt that it was vitally important in this department that we have some aboriginal management, and more aboriginal employees, as we’re engaging in our share of the negotiations across the Territories with the various aboriginal governments, various land claims, and governance negotiations that go

on with the various aboriginal groups in the various regions. That’s it.

General comments. To the motion. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I’ll be supporting this motion on a couple of principles. We often talk about sort of raising women in the context of senior management and making sure that they’re profiled appropriately and given fair opportunities.

This actually happens to be one of those departments where we have a deputy minister who is a female. It also falls down, though, in other areas, where it’s less admirable. It doesn’t reflect our general population and the distribution of representation.

So that was the principle of why I am supporting this motion. You would think, if anything, that the Department of Aboriginal Affairs would have more First Nations people in it, and it doesn’t. I would think that with the connection and interest in this issue, there must be a number of candidates out there that would be striving to be part of something that is bigger on the principles of why it exists.

Mr. Chairman, I wouldn’t want anyone to assume in any manner that I think we should fire people just to replace people. But I certainly think, in my view — and I am supporting this motion — that a strategy to highlight what I’m trying to say needs to be in place.

Again, it’s more of a representative view and an interest view. If I were to put my two cents in, I think what’s critical here, for me, is to see a plan to address this and to start making some tracks on this issue, because it just doesn’t reflect what I would think it should.

I’m going to leave it at that. So it at least gets on the record once, I’d like to ask for a recorded vote on this matter.

Sorry, one more thing: I think we can do better, and I know we can do better. I certainly know, in my experience, there are a lot of smart, educated, very leadership-style aboriginal people out there that would be willing to take on this opportunity to get into this role. I think they have every right, and we have every right to help promote that opportunity.

So, Mr. Chairman, with that, again, I’ll be supporting the motion, and I thank the committee.

To the motion. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will also be supporting this motion.

We have a chance to review departments on an annual basis, and it became abundantly clear that

the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations does not put much emphasis or priority on having key players in the department who are aboriginal.

As a government we absolutely chastise the federal government all the time when they appoint people to various positions that have to do with the management of our lands and resources. We constantly say that we have good and qualified candidates who are Northerners, who are indigenous, who are aboriginal Northerners, to manage these things, chair these kinds of things. Yet we as a government, in our own Department of Aboriginal Affairs, very obviously do not have aboriginal First Nations people in those positions of leadership in a department like this.

I have a problem with that. Also, I think it’s just sending the wrong message. It’s a contradiction, a glaring contradiction, of just about everything else that we say and stand for in this government, in terms of having our public service reflective of the territory itself. And certainly, it’s even more obvious in a department that’s called the Department of Aboriginal Affairs.

So I will be supporting the motion. I’ll speak to something else on another page, but I’ll be supporting the motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

To the motion. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to speak in favour of the motion as well.

I’m not sure if it goes far enough. To be fair to Aboriginal Affairs, they’re not alone. I think the government, in its entirety, should be somewhat ashamed of itself for having…. And not just this government; previous governments too — let’s be fair. We’ve had an Affirmative Action Policy in place for a number of years, and if you look at senior management, aboriginal people in senior management positions in this government is 15 per cent. DAAIR’s not alone. It’s a problem that runs throughout the government.

Just to pick another department: ITI has 21 senior managers. Twenty-one senior managers at ITI, and one of them is aboriginal. So DAAIR is not alone. We’re moving this motion today to raise the issue.

And it isn’t just in management at Aboriginal Affairs; it’s also in Intergovernmental Relations. I

don’t

believe there’s…. There might be one aboriginal person in that whole section, and to me, it runs contrary to, I think, what we’re trying to do and what we’re trying to work with.

We’re trying to work with aboriginal governments. We should have aboriginal people in some of those

positions. I know there are aboriginal employees in some of the negotiating areas in the department, but we can just do better, and I think that’s the message that we need to send out.

I know the other Ministers are listening to this too. We need to do better than 15 per cent in senior management in terms of aboriginal people. That’s not a very good statistic and not one to be proud of. Mahsi.

To the motion. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think this motion does at least…. I would have to agree somewhat with the Member for…

…Kam Lake, yes…

Laughter.

…on the fact that as the Government of the Northwest Territories, when you look at our stats, at the community and regional levels, we have good numbers. Headquarters itself has suffered, for a number of reasons, and it’s been through many of levels of government, or years of different governments, as the Member pointed out.

In fact, we recognize that the Affirmative Action Policy itself, government-wide, needs to be addressed. It’s been in place for many years, and we need to get to the next level.

I

understand that the Minister responsible for

Human Resources will be — if he has not already — starting to have some dialogue about the next level of what we can do to improve where we’re going.

Specifically for this department, as it’s represented and as the motion is about, we have to talk about Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations. It’s a combination of responsibilities we serve. In fact, when we put this package together, two of our employees were out on education leave and are now back and in the department. So these numbers are off slightly, and we would adjust, of course. We’re seeing how that continues to work. So we’ve got a couple more employees who are back from education leave, which shows our commitment in having them further advance their careers and potentially move up the ladder as well. So we’ve got that in place.

I’m all for having aboriginal people in place to do the job. We have to ensure that they have the appropriate level of education and training, because as an aboriginal person, I’m not in favour of putting

people in place who are going to fail. I would say that we’ve got to improve in that area. I think, in this case, we’ve got a couple of employees who have returned from education leave who will support us, the way we go forward and the work we do.

As well, even in the negotiation pieces, one thing we find in this department — because, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, we’re not seen as the employer of choice in a number of areas — is that as people move up the system in our negotiation process in other areas, they receive other, more lucrative offers, whether it be from the federal government or their own aboriginal organizations. So we have to compete with that as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

To the motion.

Question is being called. There has been a request for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

All those against the motion, please rise. All those abstaining from the motion, please rise.

Results of the motion are eight in favour of the motion, none against, seven abstentions. The motion is carried.

Motion carried.

We’re on page 2-97, Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5

million.

Agreed?

Department of Aboriginal Affairs and

Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5

million,

approved.

Page 2-99, Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Grants and Contributions, Grants: $650,000. Agreed?

Department of Aboriginal Affairs and

Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary,

Grants and Contributions, Grants: $650,000, approved.

Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, information item, Active Positions, page 2-100. Mr. Hawkins.