We have a quorum, so we’ll reconvene. We’re on page 7-35, Department of Justice, Activity Summary, Community Justice and Corrections, operations and expenditures. Do we have any questions? Mr. Krutko.

There was a program that was in place with the Tl'oondih Healing Society in Fort

McPherson, where we were looking at developing a program which was implemented for, I believe, three clients who went through three different times with the program. The whole intention of the program was to reintegrate inmates back into their communities and to allow them to deal with some of their issues so that they don’t re-offend. But it also tried to make them aware, to be able to cope with society but, more importantly, to deal with their issues before they’re released from prison.

In regard to that program, there was supposed to be a report done on that in regard to the program itself. It was a pilot project. I know we worked with the Department of Justice and the Tl'oondih Healing Society. A lot of work and effort has gone into that. We still have wilderness camps, but I think this was one step up on that. I’d like to ask the Minister: exactly what’s the status of that program, and is that something that the department will continue to look at?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr.

Chairman.

Certainly reintegrating clients or inmates back to the community is an important step to our process. I will look further into what the Member is alluding to. That will be our commitment from Justice. We’ll certainly look into that.

In regard to this government and the situation we find ourselves in, I think we have to start looking more in line with NGOs and non-government organization institutions that have the infrastructure and the ability to work with clients. I think one area this government could probably save a lot of money in is with travel, transportation, court costs and whatnot, and sending inmates to institutions. We all know the estimated cost to house someone in a correctional facility is up to $85,000 a year.

As a government we have to look at how best to serve inmates, for one thing. The other thing is to integrate them back into our communities with some sort of a program that they have to take. We have to ensure that once they get through the justice system, there is some way of dealing with the core reason that these individuals seem to be in this cycle of continuously going through the justice system.

Regardless of what the issues are — alcohol, drugs or crime in general — these areas are bothering them, and I hate to blame anyone for any particular problem. A lot of this stuff originates from residential schools and values that originate in the home. I think you can go back to a lot of these individuals and you can track their family tree and realize that this is not unique just to them.

I’d like to ask the Minister: is the department looking at trying to integrate justice programs out of large centres, where we’re worried about overcrowding and costs associated with running these larger facilities, and re-profiling some of those costs to programs such as the Tl’oondih Healing Society, and working with non-government organizations to provide the services we aren’t able to develop in-house and use the services of other organizations?

Mr. Chairman, with our department they have done some work in this area. Like I said earlier, one of the important steps was reintegrating inmates into communities, and it is one of our important milestones. We have initiated pilot projects in the communities, such as the Sahtu exploration area, where inmates were taken out on the land for various weeks. We’ve done that a couple of years now. We are looking at other communities as well to do a pilot project there. What the Member is referring to is the NGOs in the community and that possibly programs could be delivered at the community level.

There is one area that we are also exploring: how we can improve our programming in the communities. It all depends on those organizations that deliver the programs, if they have the capacity and so forth. Certainly we’ll continue to work with those communities that are interested in delivering those programs. We will continue to improve our program delivery to the communities.

Mr. Chairman, this is my last question for the Minister. I’d like to ask the Minister: is there a possibility that I can get a copy of the evaluation of the program that was run at the Tl’oondih camp in Fort McPherson. There were, I believe, three programs. There was an evaluation and assessment of that program, but I’ve never seen a copy. The Tl’oondih Healing Society has asked me to get a copy, because they want to know what worked, what didn’t work and what went wrong, so that they can improve the program but also see how they can directly enhance it. I’d like to ask the Minister if it’s possible that I can receive any documentation on that program in light of the pros and cons of what happened with that program.

Mr. Chairman, it is important for Members to be aware of what’s happening within their respective ridings. Certainly our Justice department will share with the Member the documents if there is a report being done. What we have within our department we’re more than willing to share with the Member.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions. I wanted to revisit the issue of nursing positions and the reductions in nursing

positions. I think we’re clear on what’s been reduced at the North Slave Correctional Centre, but as I mentioned in my question that I didn’t get to ask earlier, the information the social programs received indicated that there was a $22,000 reduction in a nurse position at SMCC. As the Minister stated earlier, there is no reduction in nursing positions at SMCC, but there is a reduction in a maintenance position. Could I get an explanation for this $22,000 reduction, please?

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. As in the previous discussion we had earlier, that issue has already been dealt with by motion. I’m going to have to rule that question out of order. Are there any other questions? Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you. I’ll try my other one, then. I could challenge it, but I won’t. My other question has to do with the intensive rehabilitative custodies program. It was raised earlier by I think Mr. Bromley and Mr. Abernethy. There was an indication that we received money from the federal government for this particular program. I look at the revenue summary on page 7-10, and I see $150,000 in 2007–2008, but I don’t see any money in 2008–2009 for intensive rehabilitative custody. So if I could get an explanation of how the funding from the federal government is being managed, when was it received. Has it been carried over from last year to this year? How is the program being funded?

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Ms. Schofield.

Thanks. These finances are going over my head, so I’ll have to ask for a bit of an explanation. So we’ve received money from the federal government. How much is it? I guess, then, the point is that in order for the federal money to be used in 2008–2009, we would have to have it added back in, in order to actually use the money that we got from the feds in 2008–2009. Is that correct?

Since we’ve had a bit of a windfall, so to speak, of federal money, I would suggest strongly to the Minister that he consider doing that. We probably would do that on this side of the House, speaking only for myself, of course.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Until the Members make some sort of a recommendation, all I can say at this point is that I will consider it.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I asked questions about the nursing positions before, which I understand has been dealt with by a motion — and I don’t want to ask you about the nursing positions — it precipitated a response from the deputy minister about the maintenance officer position at South Mackenzie Correctional Centre. The deputy minister indicated that position was the one that was targeted as an affected position. I’m looking at some follow-up to the information that was provided, and not for information related to the rest of the motion.

The maintenance position was the one that is potentially affected. The deputy minister mentioned that there are a couple of retirements coming up at the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre this summer. What’s the process for trying to ensure that that person in the maintenance officer position, who is a fully qualified corrections officer, gets connected into those positions? I mean, you get a letter; you’re an affected employee. There are these vacancies coming up. What’s the process. Does that maintenance officer, who’s been there 15 years, then apply for that? Is that something that’s done internally? How does that process work? I was wondering how we connect that employee with those vacant positions.

Mr. Cooper.

A while back, when the remand facility at the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre was closed, there were five positions identified for elimination but only through attrition. I’d like to know: are we still on about that, or has that been taken care of? Have enough people left to accommodate that commitment that was made at that time? I just want to make sure, with these retirements that are coming up or people who are voluntarily leaving or retiring, that those don’t somehow get categorized as those attrition positions that were kind of left over from when the remand operation shut down.