Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just

want to make the point that we’re getting into the

whole area of risk, and these are parts of the elements of what would be negotiated through the power purchase agreements with the diamond companies.

Thank you, Minister

McLeod. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know

this is a discussion that we should be having, I guess, at committee, and we should be getting a briefing on the Taltson River hydro expansion as soon as possible.

I guess I’d start off by asking the Minister: where in the works is the long-range hydro strategy for the Northwest Territories?

Minister of ITI.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That

project is being proposed and is proposed in the Main Estimates.

I think having a vision for the future

and long-range planning, when it comes to hydro, would help us out tremendously. I’m a supporter of the Taltson expansion, but I’m also interested in how it is that the government is going to add a social component to this.

I believe it’s possible to add a social component. I believe communities in close proximity to that line, especially south of the lake, should see their power rates go down. This project should be completely cost-neutral to the public purse if it’s such a good business idea.

We’ve all lived through the Deh Cho Bridge. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. History will prove that was a bad deal for the Government of the Northwest Territories, and I

don’t want the

government to make another mistake with the Taltson River hydro project.

There’s an example of it in the Yukon. You just have to ask any Yukoner. They’re paying a rider of 15 per cent for that line that runs into the former Cyprus Anvil mine. They’ll be paying that for two generations in the Yukon, and they’re not too happy about it.

We need to come up with a ways and a means that we’re going to get as much out of this transmission line as we possibly can. Again, I’m not sure if we’re doing that.

Who is on the hook at the end of the day? It’s not going to be Deze Energy. It’s not going to be the Métis. It’s going to be the ratepayers across the Northwest Territories, the paying public. That’s

who’s going to be on the hook for the project. We just have to try to protect the public when we can.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t get into joint ventures and we shouldn’t be pursuing things like this. Like I said, I support the Taltson Hydro Expansion, but we need to always keep in mind that social component and try to get as much benefit as possible, not just for industry but for the public we serve. If we don’t do that, I think we’re doing a disservice to the public.

Those are the only comments. I agree with most of what my colleagues have said over here, and it’s a discussion that I look forward to having with the band of three Ministers at some point in time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

No comment? Next on

the list I have Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I’m

belabouring it too, for a bit.

Clearly, there is an unconscionable amount of greenhouse gas emissions from the mines for which we lapsed our responsibility on doing environmental assessment and allowed it to proceed. We have a responsibility to do something about it.

I support this project. I am interested in discussion of the routing and where the costs and benefits lie. I think that’s been well expressed on this side of the House. We’d enjoy the opportunity to learn more and contribute, and we all have our biases.

The fact of the matter is we do have a narrow window of opportunity when the diamond mines will be interested, beyond which it’s not economic for them. So we have to march to that drum.

The cost of the highway route — if I can call it the western route versus the eastern route, standardize our terminology here…. Mr. Krutko raised some real issues. Personally, I can’t understand the higher costs of the western route, where we clearly have access with our highway infrastructures, versus the eastern route, where there’s no infrastructure for access, and costs should be much, much, much greater. But Mr. Krutko has raised the possibility that they are costs associated with crossing land owned by others. If that’s the case, we need to know about that and we need to weigh those costs and see if there is a role for the territorial government to participate, as the Premier has mentioned.

I’ll leave it at that. I think we do need to go forward with this project somehow. To me, this investment of $5 million, I think we could recoup that easily along the west side where we have highway access, if there are not these other hidden costs.

But something has said that the western route is more expensive, and that’s what we need to flesh out and learn about to get us all sort of started on the same page, anyway. So I guess just to throw in a question: will the Minister commit to helping us fill in those details?

The Ministerial Energy

Coordinating Committee

has committed to doing

exactly that, and we’ll look for a briefing with the committee as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We’re on page 10-25,

Operations Expenditure Summary, Energy, Activity Summary: $5.019 million.

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, Activity Summary, Energy, Operations Expenditure Summary: $5.019 million, approved.

Moving on to 10-27,

Grants and Contributions, information item, Contributions: $4.490 million.

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, Activity Summary, Energy, Grants and Contributions, information item, Contributions: $4.490 million approved.

Information item, Energy,

Active Positions, page 10-28.

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, Activity Summary, Energy, Active Positions, information item (page 10-28), approved.

Information item.

Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just

wanted to ask the Minister a question on this page, and that is talking about hydro again. I’m wondering what expertise the department has in-house to steer the proposed hydro plan or hydro program — the long-range strategy that we talked about. Who is in the department that handles the hydro file? I’d like to know.

Presently we rely on our staff

in the energy planning section who have some background in this area. Where more detailed, specialized information is required, we have an

NTEC committee, which includes some expertise from the Power Corporation. We also rely on outside expertise on an as-required basis. There are a couple of companies that we used.

Maybe the Minister could expand on

what qualifications staff have in there that have dealt with hydro files before and what experience they bring to the table. This is too important of a file just to fall in anybody’s hands. I’d like to know who is going to be responsible for steering this hydro strategy.

We will be using the director

of energy planning to provide overall coordination to the project. He will bring in outside expertise as required. In the past we’ve used expertise such as Peter Lougheed and other experts of that ilk.

I just wanted to make, I guess, an

observation if I could. Throughout this budget and the last four budgets that I’ve been a part of, there’s no shortage of position growth in the area of the Mackenzie Gas Project. We’ve probably grown by 70 positions just in the four and a half years I’ve been here, in that area alone.

Yes, the Mackenzie Gas Project is important to the future of the Northwest Territories, but if you look at the potential that hydro has in the Northwest Territories, why we don’t have a hydro specialist or somebody on staff where that’s their area of expertise…. You know, I would feel more comfortable than just leaving, like I said, an important file like hydro to a director inside a department that arguably is not even responsible for hydro. I mean, there are other departments around there. We need to get some expertise in this area, and I think we should probably look around at other jurisdictions and how they operate. Maybe they could recommend some people, because I do think we need some help in this area. Mahsi.

I think the Member makes an

excellent suggestion. Certainly, I think it’s an appropriate time to look at it, and we will seriously consider it.

Mr. Ramsay?

Thank you.

Page 10-29, information

item, Energy, Active Positions. Agreed?

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, Activity Summary, Energy, Active Positions, information item (page 10-29), approved.

Moving on to 10-31,

Tourism and Parks, Operations Expenditure Summary, Activity Summary, $10.646 million. Agreed?

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, Activity Summary, Tourism and Parks, Operations Expenditure Summary: $10.646 million, approved.

Moving on to page 10-33,

Tourism and Parks, Grants and Contributions, $4.043 million. Agreed?

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, Activity Summary, Tourism and Parks, Grants and Contributions: $4.043 million, approved.