Minister of Justice, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this particular area is in the planning stages as we speak and it's going to be gradual phases where if we're going to close down the facility, it's not going to happen right away due to the nature of the community, the staff that we have on board. So we are working with other departments and the Town of Inuvik and who may be interested in the facility for other venues. So, certainly, it is GNWT property, so we have to fully utilize that building somehow. So those are areas that we're exploring as of today. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chairman, I do get the point of gradually closing the facility over time. I guess the point is that for the amount of people that are in that facility, with the amount of staff that we have, it's a very highly expensive operation to run. As other community programs in our communities are suffering because of the lack of funding, that we still maintain this. What I'm hearing from the Minister is that because of the staffing and the jobs and that, it makes it very difficult for them to make a decision. The sound of what I'm hearing is based on because of the amount of PYs that are working there, that's going to have an impact on the community for the amount of people in there who are being ordered to stay there.

I can't get around how we rationalize and how we are coming to a decision that we keep this open, as other programs and services in our regions certainly need it and we always seem to run up to the fact that we don't have much money here and there. I think there's a point where we've got to say we have to do something. How much longer can we maintain this facility?

I think it's about $1,600 to $1,700 a day per client there. I'm not too sure what clients are there today and how many staff members we have there looking after these clients here. That's my bone of contention here in terms of there's got to be a time when you've got to say this is it here and make that difficult decision as we're all faced to do over time.

Mr. Chair, we're fully aware of that. We are, as I stated, exploring all options as we possibly can and where we can possibly secure these inmates in other facilities. At the same time we're fully aware of the cost to operate the facility with 14.5 PYs there looking after inmates of sometimes up to four, up to six. So, definitely, those are our concerns as well. That's why we presented to standing committee on a moving forward basis and I think we've been given a clear direction to move forward on the objectives. So that's what we're aiming for. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Certainly I'm aware of the affected staff in any government position that's going to be cut in any community. I'm fully aware of the consequences. We had also felt that in our regions. So I would ask, again, because the Minister had said gradually we're going to look at this and close this facility. Gradually could mean a year, two months. I don't know how long it will take. What I'm saying is that hopefully they'll make a decision here that the amount of dollars being used in this facility can be used in some of the programs that we are asking for in our communities, such as the wilderness camps, community justice programs; culturally relevant, appropriate programs in our facilities. Certainly we could see some utilization of those dollars. Certainly the Minister has a difficult task in terms of deciding what to do with the people in the Arctic Tern here.

Mr. Chair, there's existing facilities such as the one in Fort McPherson. I'm not too sure if that's viable or it's something that you want to look at in terms of the Tl'oondih Healing, or up in Inuvik they have another camp there in Inuvik or something like that where we could use.

Again, it's bothersome that we spent this amount of money for the number of clients. I understand sometimes even two, two clients there. You know, Mr. Minister has said four to six clients are there and I'm not too sure when. However, this is something that I would say on behalf of the region, at least in my region here, they're kind of scratching their heads on this as to how we justify this type of operation with what's known so far about the Arctic Tern facility and the amount of dollars that we're spending to keep it open. Certainly, again, they are looking at different ways to keep this facility open by offering different programs or a different organization may be taking over it.

So, Mr. Chair, I would ask if the Minister here, again, can maybe be a little more clear on his definition of “gradual.” I know it might be difficult for him to answer. Is it going to be a year, two years?

Mr. Chair, I just recently met with the standing committee and I was given direction to work with this with the community and also with the committee, as well, on the gradual phase out. They don't want us, as a department, to close down the facility immediately. They want us to explore our options, what to do with those 14.5 PYs so it doesn't have a huge impact on the community of Inuvik. So those are our main concerns, as well, on how we can deal with those and the facility. We're exploring our options on who or what organizations can take over that facility. So those are areas that we need to explore. So I can't really give an answer of how long it's going to be. It could be a year, but that's the direction I've been given from the standing committee. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

It's come to my attention we are dealing with capital and I believe that the issue that's being discussed I don't see anywhere in the capital budget we're reviewing. So I'll just remind the Members that we're basically dealing with capital in the Department of Justice. So if you can try to structure your questioning around the item at hand, mahsi. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do apologize, my questions somewhat went off in terms of this issue here. So I would thank the Minister for his responses.

Mr. Chair, the question I guess I would have to look at in terms of capital expenditures in terms of the wilderness camps in our region is: is that something the Minister now is going to put as a permanent program now into these wilderness camps such as the one we have in the Sahtu region?

Minister of Justice, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Clearly that's one area that we'll probably have to look at on a long-term basis. We currently have a pilot project happening in the Sahtu region and there's supposed to be one happening in the Tlicho region this fall. So those are just pilot projects and we are hoping to do another pilot project in another region. We wanted to cover all five regions. So that will be down the road if we commit to long-term plans. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

The previous government has indicated that this is a good program and this government here, through this Minister, has indicated that this is a good program. When do we stop calling it a pilot project and start calling it a permanent wilderness program?

Those are the discussions that we need to have, Mr. Chair, with the regions, with our department and also the MLAs. It's a huge undertaking within the regions, but it's a worthwhile investment and those are the discussions that we can certainly undertake once we complete the pilot projects in the regions. Mahsi.

Just a reminder, we're on page 7-2, Justice, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $1.034 million. Agreed?

Agreed. Does committee agree we've concluded the Department of Justice?

Agreed. The next item on the list was Department of Health and Social Services, page 6-2. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I request permission to bring Ms. Paddy Meade, the deputy minister of Health, to the table.

Is committee agreed the Minister brings in his witness?

Agreed. Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witness in.

Mr. Minister, for the record, could you introduce your witness?

Paddy Meade, deputy minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witness. We're on page 6-2. Basically we'll defer that page in consideration of activity summary. Turn to page 6-4. Does committee agree we defer?