Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I listened very attentively to the Minister’s comments, opening remarks, on his department here. I want to say that I would look for some clarification as the Minister of ITI has noted to me in our exchange yesterday in terms of the specific mini-hydro projects specifically named Whati and Lutselk’e. I just want to again remind the Minister that Deline also has a mini project and I am quite upset that, for some reason, this wasn’t mentioned in the Energy Strategy or just in terms of the move forward initiatives from the Energy Strategy for the GNWT as these projects have in the past been named specifically. Somehow this project from the community’s perspective is not getting the attention that Whati or Lutselk’e is getting in terms of identifying projects in presentations or even in the ads in the newspaper. So the chief isn’t very happy in terms of the government’s announcements on the Hydro Strategy. That is from the community’s perspective. I noted yesterday and read in the Hansard that Minister McLeod, the Minister of ITI has made some reference to the Deline mini-hydro project and the funding going forward. I am going to take those words on trust that the Minister is going to move forward on the Deline mini-hydro project in that area. I will leave it at that, Mr. Chairman. The community is going to wait and see.

Mr. Chairman, the initiative I like is the Energy Efficiency Incentive Program. I look forward to how these regional based positions will provide the basic education awareness and advice on energy conservation to all our communities in the Northwest Territories. I hope these new regional based positions certainly will be a benefit to the people in our communities. I look forward to that. Certainly, Mr. Chairman, the climate change is something that is in our discussion now with the changes to our environment here. I look for further information from the Minister in terms of how we are going forward in a respectable way that the communities could be involved in the Climate Change Adaptation Plan.

One issue that I do have is with the wild fires and the management of forest resources in the Northwest Territories. Again, the Minister has indicated that there is a program review of the operations. I am going to see how this whole fire review program takes place. It is being noted that a

considerable amount of discretion or decisions are made at the Fort Smith head office. Regional offices have to, from time to time, check in to get the green light to go ahead on certain fires. Sometimes my community members are saying, how is it that people from another area so far away can make a decision on our land? As we know right now in the back door in terms of what we know so I guess I hope this type of review does go to some of the regions that we are impacted by decisions. This is something that has been on the minds of our people. I know the people in Fort Smith do have a tremendous amount of work. I know people who work there. They do a lot of good work. It is just how the system is set up. I am very happy that you are going to look at the review of the operations, Mr. Minister. I think that is a good move. The community wildland fire protection plan is also something that I think is kudos to you and your department to start looking at something like this for our communities.

Mr. Chairman, the Barren Land Caribou Strategy is something that is very close to my people in the Sahtu, specifically the residents and citizens of Colville Lake have a special connection to the caribou in their area. Certainly the Sahtu Renewable Resource Board has had some good discussions with this specific animal that we feed on to keep us alive here. I look forward to some further discussions with the Minister.

Mr. Chairman, one issue I think that is going to be very contentious in the future and something that we should look seriously at is the water control of our waters in the Northwest Territories. I know the Minister is working hard with the Government of the Northwest Territories to look at the quality of water, the management of water and also the tightening up of water coming into the Northwest Territories. It is very scary when you hear reports on the radio and reading the paper about the tailings ponds leaking into our water system. We really don’t know the damage that it will do in five or 10 years from now or the amount that has been leaking, the amount that has come into our great lakes and Mackenzie River. This one here if anything and this whole government is the key to the survival of the Northwest Territories. If we don’t have water for 10, 15 or 20 years, then we are in big trouble. I encourage the government through this Minister to really fight hard for people. He’s at the forefront because his riding is right there. He has a lot at stake here. I know this is something that is very important. I am very happy that the Minister has indicated that there is some work being done in terms of this water quality and monitoring. I should point out that we should really start looking at locations where we could monitor water along the Mackenzie River and report it. So often we see changes. As I said, Mr. Chairman, in the House that

my father-in-law was a fisherman on Great Slave Lake for… he’s 82 or 84 years old. He used to fish from the Great Slave Lake for many, many years. I think he said he went around Great Slave Lake five times in his lifetime. He has seen the changes of fish over the years in Great Slave Lake. He is quite concerned. He has seen the changes in the last couple of years when he has nets at the mouth of the Mackenzie River. There are lots of changes. He is quite concerned.

Mr. Chairman, I wanted to say to the Minister and to his staff, thank you for the traditional knowledge implementation framework. This is long overdue. I think the traditional implementation framework is a start for a lot of people. I hope it is done in a respectfully in terms of our traditional knowledge like my father-in-law. He knows the land that we passed on and used in the government system in making decisions, understanding certain things with the people and their ties to this land. So this traditional knowledge implementation framework would be something that I look forward to seeing in the next couple of weeks. I hope to see something. I want to thank the Minister.

Another one that the Minister has indicated on page 4 of 5 of his presentation is the Beverage Containers Program. I think that is a dynamite project. I am glad he implemented a plastic bag project also for our communities. When I was in Fort Good Hope, elders talked about those plastic bags being on their land. I hope we support this strongly in terms of this approach as we did with the Beverage Containers Program.

Mr. Chairman, I have other comments probably later on with the Minister but I want to say to the Minister that they are not doing too bad of a job. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on my list is Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this opportunity for general comments on Environment and Natural Resources. I see there is an increase to this department, but I am happy to see that this budget is actually the same as it was two years previously so they are maintaining position. This is critical and important to me and I think to many people in the Northwest Territories and, of course, he is the one responsible for stewardship of the resources which allow us all to have a healthy life and a good future. There are good things happening in this department. I see the progressive work happening on emerging technologies such as biomass and geothermal energy. I appreciate the progressive work on wind energy. This is clearly an investment. I don’t think we can expect to learn things immediately and jump

into an economic situation but I think this is a good investment in the long term.

The climate change has been recognized as a serious issue as the Minister says for the NWT. That is putting it mildly. We now know, in fact, that we have been doing much too little and much too late as well acknowledged. I believe within the life of this Assembly, this Minister recognizes that the Greenhouse Gas Strategy does not go far enough. I would have thought there would be some attempt to either tune up the targets there or at least make sure that that is well understood and the public knows that we understand that and much more is needed. There is a certain gravity to this situation that must be recognized by this government and reacted to.

I am wondering where the reference is to community forest inventories, the need for community forest inventories and the important follow up to that, the sustainable harvesting plans for those forests on a community basis. Perhaps this is part of the Biomass Strategy and so on but we do have a number of or at least a few community forest inventories out there but we need to take that the next step to a sustainable harvesting plan and the education and support to actually get that happening on the ground. I think that will be an important step in any Biomass Strategy. Again, perhaps it is there.

I think also that there is room for new approaches in innovation in the area of traditional knowledge. This is an area that I think is extremely rich as we grapple with increasing challenges in how to make a living in and economic benefits from our land while minimizing the impacts we have on it and, in fact, now recovering the capacity that we have obviously lost and will realize increasingly.

The department is obviously doing things to implement traditional knowledge and bring it in when they can but there is concern that we are losing it out there. We have lost it in a number of areas. Most of the in depth knowledge holders are well known to communities and so on. I think there are real opportunities for having programs sponsored by this government that bring those traditional knowledge holders into play in a much more meaningful way. Get them out on the land. Perhaps subsidize their annual budget so that they can play an important role training young people and sharing their very meaningful knowledge that they have and also bringing that in in a more meaningful way to the challenges. We have to make a living in different ways off the land but drawing on this old knowledge.

I also appreciate the recycling programs that the Minister has mentioned, the beverage containers and so on. This is proven to be workable and I am

sure there are new challenges given the current recession. I also like the work that is finally beginning on the feasibility of recycling things like electronic equipment. I think we have been talking about that for a long time. I am happy to see it is finally starting although we are beginning to investigate through feasibility studies as opposed to actually getting to the action stage. So I would encourage the department to focus on that one. That is a serious concern in our environment.

The Minister also mentioned the milk containers being added to the Beverage Container Program. This Assembly has discussed quite a bit for a need for milk subsidies and so on. I am a little bit concerned and only a little bit because it is quite a modest cost but the recycling containers will add I think 20 cents a litre to the cost or something like that for a container with only 10 cents back. I wonder if this is an area where, in fact, we could give 100 percent back to the consumers because, again, we don’t want to discourage the use of milk which we know already is insufficient for a number of our families because of the exorbitant cost of milk in some of our communities and perhaps it could be on community by community basis or regional basis. I would appreciate some thinking there.

I wonder if this department could play more of a role on the opportunities we have for development of our fisheries. I know our renewable resource officers play an ex-official role with the enforcement of fisheries and so on. Perhaps we should be thinking about that and perhaps that could be profiled in any devolution talks as an immediate area for fruitful discussions.

In summary, Mr. Chairman, I applaud the energy initiatives that are being carried out by this department and I support their important role as the lead on climate change. I hope that gets a lot of profile and within the proper context of our current knowledge. I definitely like and support the work on the NWT Water Strategy. I think it is critical and, in fact, is being seen as a real model on how to recognize and steward resources that have such strong ecological values as well as economic ones. Perhaps only our climate is of greater concern and need. I want to honour that work and give it the recognition it deserves. That is all I have for now, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next on my list is Mr. Jacobson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the Minister’s opening statement, it is really good to see the wind turbines going to be going up in Tuk this year. If we could make sure that we have the turbines hooked up directly to the power plant and try to save the people some money

on their power bills in the community, I hope to see this in the other communities in the future as well.

Moving on to climate change, it remains a serious issue. We could talk about down here in Yellowknife, but people in my riding are living it every day through the different circumstances of weather. In summertime we’re losing the shoreline to erosion. I plan to work with partners to develop the initial regional climate change scenarios. I’d really like if not all my communities involved in that, for Sachs Harbour, anyway. It’s on the side of a bank and the permafrost is starting to let go in parts of the community. That could cause a landslide and I really worry about that. For Paulatuk, waterfront, the banks are sliding in. The mayor took me on a tour and it is sliding. There are some really bad areas in the community that are sliding through the permafrost melt. In Tuk, for sure, shoreline erosion is right through the whole community. It’s really important that we take a good look at this to see where we could help the community government try to protect the community.

In regard to the survey that is being conducted this summer on population estimates on the several caribou herds including the Bathurst, Cape Bathurst, Bluenose-East and Bluenose-West caribou herds. I think traditional knowledge should be taken into consideration in having local guides. Not just the staff of ENR but people that could go and explain to the communities after the fact of what’s really happening, because we rely heavily, in my riding, on caribou to feed our families due to the high cost of beef and stuff that’s trucked into the community. I think it really should be looked at to get the numbers correct. Not only that for the community, but for the sport hunting situation in regard to caribou. Right through the whole Territory I think it should be really looked at carefully.

The Wildlife Act, implementing new Species at Risk Act and finalizing that. For me, I talked about sport hunting of polar bears in the communities numerous times. I’ve travelled with the Minister of ITI. He knows the situation I’m in. I think you knew before we...It’s 85 people directly impacted. It’s a $1.7 million hit to the economy, i.e., the airlines, local stores, local guides and helpers. I really think this should be taken into consideration before we even think about the Species at Risk Act and finalizing it for the Northwest Territories.

I would just like to say to the Minister in regard to the success of the Beverage Container Program, it’s a real success, I think, in all communities, especially in Tuk, because I live there, seeing not a pop can, not a bag in the community. It really helps. Anything like that is always good to see, to bring stuff back to the South and not just left in the communities.

That’s it for my opening remarks and I look forward to page by page. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Jacobsen. Next on my list is Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, just in regard to the Minister’s opening comments, I look forward to the new comprehensive legislation that they’re bringing forward in regard to dealing with the sustainable management of our forests. As part of that, I’d like him to open it up even more to allow the land claims sections of their land claims agreements which talk about forestry management in the land claim agreements, and also that they’re able to be included in the forest management of those forest sectors in their regions. I’d like to get the Minister to respond to exactly how, with this amendment or change in legislation, will that also include the land claim agreements similar to how we’re making amendments to the Wildlife Act to enact those sections of those land claim agreements so that we are able to fully implement those agreements that have been signed between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada.

I think the same thing applies in regard to the Wildlife Act. It’s long overdue and I’m hoping that we can bring it forward in the life of this government, because it has been quite some time since there’s been any real movement. We’ve spent millions of dollars dealing with consultation and developing the legislation. Again, it’s something that I look forward to seeing implemented. I think it’s important, also, in regard to the question dealing with the millions of dollars to develop some sort of action plan dealing with the Barren Ground Caribou Management Strategy because, like Mr. Jacobson stated, that caribou is an essential food source for the people, especially in the Mackenzie Delta and the Beaufort Sea area. I think a lot of people in the communities are concerned about what’s happening to the caribou and, more importantly, what the government is doing to look at what some of the implications or the effects on the caribou species are from the changing climate, the changing weather, the increased number of species such as wolves that we’re seeing more and more are preying on the caribou.

I think also one of the issues that they’re dealing with is the forest fires and the effect it’s having on the food source. Also, with the changing growth in vegetation, changing from the lichen that the caribou depend on, just seeing more willows and forested areas moving north towards the coastline. I think that also has implications on the migration of these caribou herds.

More importantly, I think the biggest threat is the change in climate. For me, it has a very significant

impact and I think we are seeing it by the health of the herd by way of their migration route and the changing trends that people have identified. I think it’s important that we do ensure that traditional knowledge is used when you do any research on the caribou species, or any species for that matter, because that knowledge will tell us what has changed, how it has affected the animals and, more importantly, how it’s affected the people.

One of the things that we need to seriously consider looking at is the whole area of water resources. We’re at the end of the flow in which most of these river systems flow from southern Canada or from the Yukon into the Northwest Territories, and a large portion of those water sources come from the glaciers in the Rocky Mountains or the mountains in western Canada. I think with the shrinking glaciers that we’re seeing, that we are seeing lower and lower water levels in western Canada and also there is going to be a major affect to ourselves being downstream from where a lot of these water sources come from.

One of the biggest threats we’re seeing is dealing with human impact by way of what’s happening in the tar sands, what’s happening with the oil and gas development, mining developments around watersheds and, more importantly, the effects we’re seeing downstream in regard to the bird species and fish species, that we’re starting to see the different effects. For myself, I think the biggest threat we are going to see to our water system is the melting permafrost. The effect of that melting permafrost and the runoff of that permafrost into our water table, regardless into our rivers, into our lakes, and the effects it’s going to have on the fish species that most people depend on as a food source which we’re going to see higher traces of mercury more and more, as well as other types of ailments in the fish. For me, that’s the biggest threat that we are going to see by way of the effect on our water table and our water systems.

Also, I’d just like to ask the Minister in regard to the whole area of energy and looking at finding new ways to generate energy. I think that we have to somehow, as a government, find a system that’s unique to the North, but it’s portable, it’s transportable, you can move it from one place to another and allow for, you know, instead of dealing with one community at a time, have a system that you put it into 10 communities or put it into 20 communities. I was very impressed with a system we saw when we did a tour in Manitoba in which they basically have a...(inaudible)...river system where they have these turbines which basically sits in the river and it runs the turbine. They’re testing it out in, I believe it is Ruby, Alaska, so they’re already testing these systems in Alaska. I don’t see why we, as government, can’t look at something like that. They’re not as costly as wind turbines. I

think we’re looking at somewhere in the area of $200,000 up to $250,000. Especially during the times of year when we have open water in the river systems, you can look at possibly going all the way from May right until October with these systems and hook it into our communities. It’s those types of things. I know they are looking at a possible pilot project in Fort Simpson, I believe, on this system. Again, working with those types of organizations, either the University of Manitoba or Manitoba Hydro, groups that are looking at these initiatives for their northern communities, I think we should also be ahead of them and try to look at those types of initiatives.

I think we do have to look at other things such as biomass and geothermal, and I know that the Yukon has done a lot of work on geothermal in regard to research and studies in regard to the whole Precambrian Shield and looking at where the volcanic fault lies along the Rocky Mountains into the Yukon and all the way up to Alaska. I think that’s something that we have to start researching in the Northwest Territories to see where those fault areas lie and where the highest potential is in regard to using geothermal.

In regard to biomass, I think that we are focusing a lot on pellets and everything else, but in my view, at the end of the day, it’s just like a question of supply and demand. It’s just like the fuel prices: the supply is there, the price goes up; the demand is there, the price goes up. I think because there’s only one distributor of this product and at some point he’s going to basically realize there’s potential to make money out of this system. If you get enough people consuming a product, the price will go up.

I think, right now, with the price of fuel being where it’s at, if anything, through this department I think you should be working with communities, people within your forestry departments, identifying those fire stands where we have had fire and we should be cutting down the deadwood that’s out there, using that wood by way of biomass in communities and using big wood boilers, basically hooking them into the schools or hooking them into where we know the cost of using the wood pellets is unrealistic because the cost is just unbearable, but we have wood products around our communities. It also generates not only employment opportunities but it also gives us a real say on exactly how we are harvesting our forests and, more importantly, how we’re maintaining and managing that resource. I think it’s important that this government does everything it can to look at those types of things.

Again, I think this government has the potential for doing good things but, again, you have to be able to show that you are looking at all communities throughout the Northwest Territories and seeing how we have systems that basically will ensure that

we are able to serve communities with these new products that are out there and not simply go at it one project at a time. Maybe going with five or 10 projects at a time. Then you will see a real difference by way of reducing the cost of living and also reducing greenhouse gasses.

With that, I look forward to asking questions during the budget process.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a few comments on the opening remarks from the Minister. I’m obviously pleased to see the mini-hydro in Lutselk’e. I think it’s something that will be very positive in the long run for the community as far as the cost of power in that community goes. I think mini-hydro should bring the cost of power right down which will have a very positive impact on the cost of living in Lutselk’e.

Just more on the amount of money that’s spent on the forest fires, I know that is a huge budget and I know that it’s a huge operation, fighting fires across the Territories. Maybe using some of the traditional knowledge...I think that the department is a lead in the area of wildlife management, so I think traditional knowledge can also be used for fighting fires. I recognize the department has a long history with fighting fires and they recognize and have a good ability to value the risk and determine whether or not those values should be protected.

I’m pleased that they’re continuing to do the Barren Ground Caribou Management Strategy and also the development of the Wood Bison Management Strategy, I think those are two very important species for the Northwest Territories and for the supply of food for the people in the Territories. I wonder if it wouldn’t be wise to expand beyond the Bathurst, Cape-Bathurst, the Blue-Nose herds and also include in the strategy, I suppose the Beverly Qamanirjuaq, Ahiak and the Porcupine caribou herds. I think that especially the BQ and the Ahiak herds do mix with the Bathurst and possibly even the Blue-Nose herds, and I think that the Porcupine herd also has an impact on the NWT. The Porcupine herd, I think, are based out of Alaska. I think that’s where their calving grounds are, however, they do spill into the Territories when they move off their calving grounds and so on. I think that in order to get a holistic shot of what really the condition or the numbers of the barren ground caribou are, I think it’s important to look at the BQ and the Ahiak herds as well.

I would also like the department to somehow during our government, during this Assembly, complete the Wildlife Act and the Species at Risk Act. I think those are very important tools for the management

of wildlife in the Territories and how they make decisions on what type of species will need protection aside from always having essentially being governed by the Species at Risk Act that is federal and that sometimes doesn’t fit well with the herds. Well, not necessarily the herds, but the species that the Northwest Territories or the Environment and Natural Resources is protecting.

I’m pleased with the traditional knowledge implementation. It’s good to see the department implement the Traditional Knowledge Implementation Framework. I think that’s very valuable. I think that the traditional knowledge will give us a lot of information on especially the caribou. Caribou seems to be a very key species in the Territories, and I think that science and traditional knowledge a combination of both of those systems will allow us to get a better handle on what we can anticipate for the caribou herds in the upcoming years.

I think there is some history with some of the people that have lived off the caribou for years, even down into Saskatchewan where at one time there was no caribou at all, they came back, and now they seem to be lessening again. Also, even in this part of the Northwest Territories, at one time there was no caribou coming down here at all and sometimes people indicate that it could be the food and some of the traditional knowledge people say that it is a cycle that should be coming back and cycling every 30 years or so. The herds will go up and down and so on. It might be interesting to apply both of those.

I will have some questions in the detail on the Beverage Container Program. I think that adding milk containers might be a good recyclable product. I like the idea of plastic bags and trying to work to lessen the use of the retail plastic bags. I think that is important. I thought that the department would expand beyond that. I think that, at one time, we had travelled to the Yukon. I think they recycle tires over there, and I think that there are a few things that are in abundance that are no longer being used, tires being one of them. Maybe computers being another thing that could be recycled. I think we have warehouses full of computers that are obsolete. There is a lot of, I guess, product there that maybe could be sent somewhere to be reused, rebuilt, recycled.

Aside from that, I think a good department, I like the work that they do in environment, wildlife management and so on and I look forward to the detail. Thank you.

Next on the list I have Ms. Bisaro and Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a couple of comments. I am appreciative of being able to make some opening comments relative to this department. In general, I am approving of what I hear from the Minister in his opening remarks. In the statement about the development of alternative energy supplies and emerging technologies, I welcome that and I am glad we are spending money in that area. I guess my concern is that I would hope that we don’t spend the money studying things and looking at things, that we are actually going to be -- and not in five years time but hopefully in this next budget year -- able to ensure that the actions that we are undertaking are going to be evident on the ground and in communities, so that we are going to be seeing the results of this work of developing alternative energy strategies and looking at emerging technology, that that is going to be evident in a concrete way in our communities. In particular, our small communities who endure the highest energy costs. I think there is kind of small things, small projects, small changes which we can effect now that will assist in some of this stuff and I know that Mrs. Groenewegen has said quite a number of times, you know, why don’t we put a wood burning stove in every house. That is the sort of thing that I am thinking of.

I am really pleased to see that we are going to have wind turbines installed in Tuktoyaktuk and that that is going to be in this next year. For some reason it was in my head that it was going to be a longer-term thing, and that is great that it is hopefully going to be operational in ’09-10.

The expanding programming and the extra funding that we are giving to Arctic Energy Alliance I think is an investment that is extremely worthwhile. My experience with Arctic Energy Alliance is that they do extremely good work and they are providing a service to our communities that is necessary. They have got an expertise and they have with the addition of some new positions here. It is going to spread their services much further across the Territory than they are right now, so I am totally approving of that expense.

I am a little concerned -- and I don’t know if it is quite referenced in the budget or not, but I know we talked about it in the business plans -- about the federal regulations relative to wastewater effluents and the effect that that is going to have on our communities. I don’t know whether ENR is involved in that. I think it is probably a joint departmental project at this point. But I need to caution the government in general that this is going to have a huge impact on our communities, and we need to make sure that we are out in front on this and ensuring that communities are going to be able to deal with whatever regulations the federal

government puts in place and that it’s not going to cost us an arm and a leg.

I noted in the budget that the funding for fire suppression resources was considerably reduced this year from last year, so I will have some questions when we come to that part of the budget. I am just wondering whether or not it is going to have an impact on communities and on lands within the NWT and around communities in terms of whether or not we are going to be able to keep our fires under control, basically, or whether we are going to be losing more forests to forest fires than we may have been before.

The Caribou Management Study which we recently received, I was really glad to see that that was done and that it has been shared with the public. I guess I do want to know, that when we come to that section of the budget, whether or not it is going to have an impact on quotas for outfitters and, if not this year, when it might be. There certainly are outfitters out there who want to know.

The Beverage Container Program I am fully in support of. I think it has been a very successful program and I am really pleased to see that it is being expanded. The fee for single use bags, I support, and I think this says the fall of 2009. The sooner we get that in place the better. Plastic bags are the bane of our existence and I hate them with a passion.

The suggestion that we are going to expand to electronic and an e-waste recycling program is wonderful. Mr. Jacobson mentioned we have warehouses full of e-waste and I think every house has probably a cupboard full of e-waste as well. It is something that certainly the City of Yellowknife has difficulty with because there is nowhere that it can be recycled, but there is an awful lot of...There are contaminants within all the e-waste that gets taken off to the dump here in Yellowknife.

With regards to adding the milk containers, I agree with that, I think that is a great thing. To Mr. Bromley’s suggestion of returning the whole of the subsidy for the milk containers, I could live with that. I would also consider, or ask the department to consider, that the extra money that comes from the deposits on the milk containers be put aside and used for a milk subsidy. If we can’t get the money from somewhere in the budget, maybe we can get it by adding a deposit on our milk containers. Not an extra one, but if we are retaining any funds, then let’s put it into a milk subsidy instead of putting it someplace else.

I was pleased to note that the department highlights an Interdepartmental Green Team, which is being led by ENR. That is great. That is wonderful. So following up on my statement from last week, I look

forward to seeing a bottled water policy coming very soon from this Interdepartmental Green Team. That would make me very happy and I did get communication from the Minister -- thank you very much -- recently that it is being looked at, so hopefully I will hear about that policy soon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, that is all I have.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Next on the list I have Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister and deputy minister and Mr. Dalley for walking us through the business plans. I have got a great deal of faith in the job Mr. Bohnet and the Minister are doing in the department of ENR. I think both of them bring a lot to the table. I know Mr. Dalley serves in both capacities with ITI and ENR and is new to the job, so I look forward to working with him in the future. Just a few comments, and like I said, I think the department is headed in the right direction. Many Members have already covered off a lot of the issues I was going to cover, so I will just highlight a few things that are of interest to me.

I think, and this crosses a few departments, but $2.5 million that we are looking at spending this year on the Taltson expansion...Given the current economic downturn, it would make more sense to me if we took that $2.5 million and spent it in Whati and Lutselk’e and got those mini-hydro systems up and running sooner rather than later. I think we spent a lot of time studying and analyzing and, you know, it’s time and I am glad to see those wind turbines going into Tuktoyaktuk, but we need to get more alternative energy devices and infrastructure on the ground and in communities where they can make a difference. That $2.5 million that we are looking at spending on the Taltson expansion -- and I am still a big fan of the Taltson River Expansion -- however, I just don’t know who is going to sign on to a power purchase agreement, especially the mines north of the city, when they are laying folks off, they are going through some tough times themselves and the market for diamonds worldwide is at an all time low, so that is going to be problematic. So I would suggest that we may have a better use for that $2.5 million.

I don’t have quite the disdain for plastic bags as Ms. Bisaro has, but I put them to good use at my house. I am not looking forward to paying 25 cents for them like the next guy, but I do, you know, if people aren’t going to use plastic bags for their garbage at home or for their litter box for the cat or for whatever purpose that they do end up using them for, they are going use plastics of other kinds, from Glad and those cat box liners and things like that, so I am not sure. I know that what we are trying to do is we are trying to get plastic bags out of the waste stream, and I can appreciate that. This item,

though, we never had a discussion on the charge of 25 cents in committee. It was something that was sprung on us during the budget address. That was really, I believe, the first time I heard about a 25 cent charge going onto plastic bags. You know, if you look around the world in other jurisdictions, I think they charge five cents or 10 cents. I am not sure where they came up with 25 cents for a plastic bag, but anyway it is something I can, I guess, buy into.

If people are going to need to carry the multi-use bag around with them to the grocery store, then that is what people are going to have to do. I am interested, when we get to the page by page, I am interested in knowing -- we are going to distribute these types of enviro-friendly bags in communities across the Northwest Territories -- in finding out how much that is going to cost, and I will have some questions in that area as well.

Like Ms. Bisaro, I have some concerns on the impact on quotas for outfitters in terms of the barren ground caribou and where we are headed with that, but I will save those questions for the detail, Mr. Chairman.

I think for me the bottom line is the department is in good hands and it is being managed quite well. Thank you.

General comments. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I like the opening remarks by the Minister. He certainly covered a lot of ground and my colleagues covered a lot of ground as well. I just wanted to let him know a bunch of concerns from my riding that we have been working with his department on.

I think this summer we had a concern from the smaller communities of the fire protection zone. Maybe, my suggestion is, if the department can do better to explain the guidelines and policies with respect to proximity fires and observation zones, because they obviously give me a call and say why isn’t the department fighting this or that and I really have no explanation other than, well, I will call the Minister. But I think a better strategy is to inform the communities before the fire season. Let them know the departmental plans and strategies around proximity fires. Because it is rather scary because some of those fires can get pretty huge and if they see us not fighting them, then the whole community gets worried. To pre-empt that, a better community communication plan would certainly help in many, many cases. I have many communities in my riding that sure could use those explanations.

I was asked about creating fire buffer zones. I don’t know if that is a program of ENR or is that another department that has a look at it. That is creating firebreaks around the communities, Mr. Chairman. It is a beneficial thing, because it does create some work, as well, for the community. To create this strip it brings a greater comfort level to the communities that are being proactive, if there is a forest fire nearby, and that is something I would certainly support and I would convey to the department or maybe convey to the appropriate Minister that that is something that we should be looking at once again, if it is not already there. Maybe we should communicate the program to the communities.

Another issue that the Minister knows I have been following up on is the Bison Management Strategy, and I was pleased to see that during Christmas that the ministry has created a Bison Management Strategy. I advise that you have to get to the communities that have been raising that with me. That is the communities of Fort Liard, and, for the most part, Nahanni Butte, who had the very same bison management issues, where buffalo are roaming around the community, destroying gardens and very expensive transplanted trees that people want to improve their yard and home with.

As well, another issue that they face with buffalo, especially in Fort Liard, is that because the highways are salted, the buffalo go near vehicles, lick them or damage them, rub against them. People are really curious, constituents are really curious as to why don’t we look at a compensation program of some nature, even a small gesture or something. I would like the department to consider that. I think that we do it in other areas, right? A fire burns down a trapper’s cabin, that is like an act of nature. Buffalo are like an act of nature. But the other key thing is that people want to be compensated, because buffalo are not indigenous to Fort Liard or Nahanni Butte. I didn’t realize, I thought it was the ‘50s or ‘60s, but it was only in the ‘70s that the buffalo were brought there, and the herds are getting rather large now and they are causing great concern. So the Bison Management Strategy, my first initial reaction was I am glad I got it, but they really have to sit down with the community in well-advertised meetings and get as many people out as they can. I know that I have been pushing this for some time and for whatever reason, Mr. Chairman, the members of the department would go to the communities and one or two people would show up. It doesn’t mean that they are not interested. I think it is maybe because it was not advertised. People are very, very interested. At all my constituency meetings that I have in Fort Liard, and all the Ministers they bring to Fort Liard, they continuously raise it. When department officials go there and nobody shows up,

it doesn’t mean that the issue is not real and I would urge them to sit down with the community with an open mind, not just to say that this is the Bison Management Strategy and that is it, because there are some concerns that they want to add up to and including, I know, there was an incident were a local fellow discharged or shot a buffalo in the community. We don’t want to get to that stage again. What we want to do is a strategy, like, if a buffalo is in your yard or damaging your vehicle, what is the strategy to address that incident other than phoning up our wildlife officer who may be out on patrol or something. So those are the questions that people want action on. In fact, last week in the House, too, I asked about some of the other initiatives like electrified fencing and some of those things being worked on in other areas. Those are real strategies that people want to see some action on.

A recent concern, too, is we need a better public campaign as well about the cadmium levels in the South Mackenzie Mountain moose. It affects people I represent. They’re concerned. What does this mean? I believe that a public awareness campaign has to be done better. I know there were a couple of articles in the paper that addresses these concerns, but I believe the department has to be proactive and get out there to the communities and to the band councils and Metis councils and explain to them and the people exactly what it means. The internal organs of our larger animals are actually delicacies to our elders and people who use the land. Far before we get to the ribs, we’re snacking on the innards and kidneys and...(inaudible)...et cetera. They’re a delicacy. But I think the key thing is, my message is to get out there and advise the people, do a public campaign. Nobody likes to find out at the last minute on any matter.

My colleague, the Member for Frame Lake, raised in the House about the bottled water policy. I have to stand opposed to it. I don’t know what she’s after. I don’t know if she wants to add an additional levy to it. I just want to say that some of my communities, because they have potable water issues with the water reservoirs, which I have yet to speak about, depend heavily on buying bottled water for their drinking water from the stores. Every time they go to Fort Simpson and/or Hay River they’re buying huge quantities, and at great expense. So if the concern is to add more expense at this point until the water issue is resolved, I would have to indicate my concern about how far you’re going with this policy. I’d like to be involved with it. Please put me on your distribution list, because I want to see what exactly it means to the people that I represent. Like I said, this bottled water policy, I don’t know what you’re doing with it, but it’s something that I’m going to have to say I cannot support at this time, because I don’t know

what it means and my people use bottled water all the time in my small communities. I’ve got five small communities that depend on bottled water only because their drinking water may be safe, because we tell them it’s safe, but they’re not drinking it and there’s a reason for it. They’d prefer crystal clear water, something they can see through if they’re going to drink it.

I just wanted to reiterate those concerns. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the opening remarks.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I have nobody else on my list. Is committee agreed that we’ve concluded general comments?

Thank you. What we’ll do is now go to Mr. Miltenberger to respond to committee’s general comments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of common concerns and I’ll try to just speak to the broad areas of alternate energy, the forestry issues, the wildlife issues, recycling, traditional knowledge and climate change.

The Alternate Energy Plan that has come before this House is spread among a number of departments. It is the first time the Government of the Northwest Territories has actually put serious money towards getting things done in a whole host of areas. Up until now we’d been studying a number of projects but never had the capital to move forward on them. So the intent is during the life of this Assembly to show significant, actual progress on projects. We’re trying to cover a broad range of projects.

A lot of the focus is cost of living oriented. Looking to communities that are reliant on diesel and trying to come up with ways to get them off of that. This is the first year and the message hopefully for the life of this Assembly that we’re going to be working very hard to carry out the plan. The hope is that the 17th Assembly will see the value of this work and

the need to continue it. It’s not going to be complete in three years.

If we move towards biomass, for example, we have to be able to prove out the technology and then we have to come up with funds to look at implementing it across the North where it makes sense. We are very seriously considering the value-added industries that could come with biomass, specifically the manufacturing of pellets. Right now there is a big, fixed site plant in La Crete and we believe and know that there’s technology for portable, smaller pellet-making operations which we think have, in the longer term, greater applicability

across the North and that communities could manage on their own because there is an industry here that could be community specific. We are looking at biomass.

The mini-hydro as well. We recognize that there are far more sites than just Lutselk’e and Whati. The key, as was indicated yesterday by Mr. McLeod and Mr. Vician, is that we are also doing the mapping and we want to identify all the other sites that are there. Deline has been of interest, but the two that are farthest along in our opinion were Lutselk’e and Whati. The intent is to carry on that work but look as well to other communities in the coming years.

The wind turbines we, as well, believe are going to be portable once we get it operational in Tuktoyaktuk to get it done. The broader issue of the Taltson project, we’ve spent a significant amount of money getting it ready. It’s into the environmental assessment phase. The upfront cost, as Mr. McLeod indicated yesterday, is that this is a half billion dollar project. The investment we’re making is recoverable by a lot of standards in terms of required upfront investment. It’s a good investment and we understand that there are still serious discussions underway with De Beers, and we have to take the long view with De Beers and the diamond mines that once we’re through this current downturn, the long-term prospects are good. Right now there is a benefit to proceeding because steel costs, for example, are at not an all-time low but the lowest they’ve been in decades. Those type of costs, the costs of wire, the costs of copper, have all come down. There’s a benefit to that.

We also, as we look at the alternate energy piece, there are short-term things, long-term, and midterm things we want to do, and we’ve applied money, as well, to beef up subsidies to encourage people to in fact convert to more energy-efficient appliances, to get into wood. In fact, we’ve got money in the budget to work with communities to reintroduce wood burning and sort out some of the issues of installation, insurance and those type of things.

This is one of the most significant issues we have, I believe, in terms of making serious impacts on cost of living, alternate energy, greenhouse gases, and those type of areas that are of significant concern to us. Part of this is going to be...There’s about a sixth of the Territory that’s been mapped out with forest inventories. We have to proceed and continue on with the mapping as we look at things like biomass and what resources are there and what’s the best use we can make of those resources. We are going to continue with that work.

We’re also going to continue with communities to develop and complete, where they haven’t been completed, the community energy plans as well as the inventories around communities.

We also do have a FireSmart Program where we’ve identified communities where work is being done. We know there are a lot of communities in the boreal forest area that should be looking at this and our staff stand ready to work with communities to get started on that process. There are things individuals can do. There are things communities can do. There are things ENR can assist in doing, as well, to get each community fire smart where there is a risk of forest fires.

We are also, if I could speak quickly now about legislation. The forestry act is about 50 years old and, like the Wildlife Act, we’re committing to getting that done. We recognize fully and will involve the co-management boards and aboriginal governments in the development of these pieces of legislation the same as we have with the Species at Risk Act. We have set the model with the Species at Risk Act. The Wildlife Act currently has had a number of meetings and is moving, we believe, very effectively and efficiently based on the trail broken through the Species at Risk Act process. We believe that same approach will be used with the Forestry Act, recognizing that we have long-overdue commitments as a government that we are required to honour through the land claims that have yet to be honoured. We are very sensitive to that issue as it pertains to many of the aboriginal governments with the land claims that have been settled.

The Species at Risk Act, there was some concern raised about polar bears. The polar bear issue is not based on our Species at Risk Act. It is because there is a difference of opinion between the experts in Canada, COSEWIC in particular, and what the American government decided to do in terms of recognition of the polar bear. We saw it as a species of concern. The Americans decided their assessment was more significant and severe than that and, as a result, they’ve put restrictions on that have affected the ability to move polar bear hides across into the States, which has put a significant damper on the polar bear outfitting.

The work on caribou we intend to continue with. The Yukon government and the Americans are going to try once again to do the assessments of the long-overdue inventory of the Porcupine. We are going to look once again at the Cape Bathurst, the Bathurst, or the Bluenose-West and Bluenose-East, and the Bathurst. We did work last year on the Beverly, which gave us pause for serious concern. We’re working with Nunavut looking at the Beverly. Sorry, the Ahiak and the Qamanirjuaq. The work to date has not given us any pause to celebrate. There are still significant concerns, we believe, that are out there. We’ve committed, though, until we can finish a more thorough assessment with the outfitters in the North Slave, especially to maintain the 750 tags that are

currently there per year. We’ve also committed to working with the outfitters in terms of the process of how tags are allocated to come up with a way that is more timely. If there are going to be tags that are not used, to have them come back into some type of pool where they can be accessed before the hunting season is over.

The issue of recycling. We believe we are going to hit about 100 million containers by June since the start of this program that have been recycled and not put in the landfills or scattered across the land, which I think is an achievement which should be celebrated, which we intend to do. We also estimate that there are roughly nine million or so single use bags every year that go into landfills, which is why we’re putting the levy on. It’s a consumptive levy that people can avoid. We anticipate that we’re going to be able to fund some of our other recycling beverage container initiatives with some of the funds that are going to be collected through the levy. We are working with, for example, Alberta, who has an Electronic Recycling Program that we would like to partner in with them on rather than try to set up our own. We are looking at options on the milk containers. The best way to do this that it’s going to have the minimum impact and not negatively impact the consumption of milk on both these areas, we will be coming back to committee before we launch the final program.

I also forgot to mention, as I talked about alternate energy, we know that there is significant interest in two areas specifically -- Yellowknife and the Simpson area -- on geothermal. We want to work with those communities to look at the proposals they have underway. Yellowknife has already invested a significant amount of money and we would like to see how we can assist in that area.

The Bison Strategy, I know the Member for Nahendeh has been concerned about that. We anticipate that within two to three weeks we will be able to sort out a date with the community of Liard, for example, to have the meeting that we talked about in this House. We are committed to do the proper notification and make people aware of the issue to try to get as good a turnout as possible. We are definitely interested in consultation and feedback both in that area. And we take the advice and concern raised by the Member in terms of the cadmium levels in the Mountain moose.

Climate change is probably one of the underlying issues that are driving a lot of our concerns across the board. As we look at all the things we do with housing, with capital projects, with trying to sort out what’s happening with the animals, we recognize that climate change is one of the factors and it’s affecting things like permafrost, it’s affecting things like invasive species, insects, the rate of predation. It’s making things more accessible. We have to pay

more and more and better and better attention to this in all the work that we do. The Climate Change Committee that Mr. Bromley and Mr. Krutko sit on is in the process of working collectively to develop a policy lens that will help us look at how we look at these issues as a government, and where there’s a need as we look at things through our macro-economic lens, we also want to be able to look through things through this climate change lens to make sure we’re paying the proper attention to this issue.

Traditional knowledge has been on the books now since 1997. The intent is within the life of this sitting to be able to table in this House the plan going forward. The step prior to that is going to be to send a package to Priorities and Planning of everything that’s been done to date in terms of getting ready to roll this out as a government so that they can have an opportunity for some feedback. But our goal, as we try to beat the clock, is to have this ready to go forward to the public by early April. It’s going to be, as people will tell us, in many cases, long overdue. We’ve heard it over the years from Members about getting it done. Well, we’re ready to in fact do that.

A final two things I’ll just quickly touch on. The issue of water is one of the major issues for this Assembly, this government. We’ve been working very hard on our Water Strategy, which we will hit our deadlines in terms of having a document that we can bring forward to this House, to the Members and to the people, the results of the last 14 months’ work. We hoped by fall to be able to have a policy that we can accept and adopt as a government and as a Legislature. We’re also hoping, because of all the work we’ve done and the fundamental concern about this issue, that we will have the aboriginal governments on side as well. We’ve been working with them as we develop this. We’ve spent a lot of time. We’ve listened very carefully. We’ve heard over and over again over the years from the aboriginal governments the concern of all governments, every Northerner we’ve talked to about this issue of water. Both transboundary issues, but also how we deal with water in the Northwest Territories. I know there’s a lot of concern about what’s happening to the south of us and the issue of cumulative impact. There are many things happening in Alberta in terms of resource development, proposed dams. The folks from B.C. are here talking about Site C, the Bennett Dam. We also know that in the headwaters in the mountains, the Rockies, the glaciers are disappearing and the snowpack is diminishing as the temperatures rise. There’s more extraction and impoundment. We have a whole host of challenges.

But as we look south we must not forget our own backyard. If I can use two examples, we have 320,000 metric tonnes of arsenic trioxide sitting in mine shafts in Yellowknife below the level of the

lake that we’re trying to come up with a way to conclude the securing of at least in the interim. Across the lake we have what is left from Pine Point and the tailings ponds that are there. When you fly over that it looks very similar in many cases to some of the pictures that you see on Google Earth of what’s happened in Alberta. So we have to be comprehensive in our approach. We have our own issues in the North, as well, that we have to make sure we pay attention to. Those are just two examples. There are other mines we’ve tried to deal with, including Port Radium. So it is a major issue for us and we’re going to continue that work because it is so important and it’s going to tie into the land use framework that we’re doing that’s going to give us, as a government, the ability to have our thinking clear so we can be constructive and supportive when we go to the tables that are there negotiating land use frameworks that have been highly recommended by Mr. McCrank, for example; one of the recommendations that we think has significant pertinent value to us as a Territory.

So there are many things we have on the go. I appreciate the kind comments and I do support the recognition of the hard work that the staff has been doing and continues to do.

Finally, we are looking at the values at risk for forest fires. We know this is a concern. We’ve had values at risk for some time. There is concern that circumstances have changed, as climate change increases and the forest fire seasons expand, and there is loss of habitat for caribou, the issue of how we are doing values at risk has been brought into question and we’ve committed to look both at values at risk and the command and control of how decisions are made on fighting fire so that we can be as responsive as we can as close to the fires that we can. We recognize that over the years we’ve had a concentration on decision-making that may not have always worked in our best interest. Thank you

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. The committee has already agreed that we have concluded general comments. Is committee agreed that we move onto detail?

Alright. First page is 13-7, but we will defer this page until we’ve gone through the detail throughout the rest of the document for ENR. Our first page for consideration is 13-8, which we’ll do after a short break.

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I would like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. We are on page 13-8 which is an information item,

infrastructure investment summary. Are there any questions?