Should a community or interested party come forward with a proposal that would propose to be able to remedy this particular situation in a way that is going to be affordable, of course we’d be happy to look at that, keeping in mind our own limited resources and our capacity that we’re now focusing on these other key areas. But we’d be prepared to look at that. Thank you.

Thank you. I certainly appreciate the Minister’s openness in terms of a community willing to possibly put forward a proposal should they still have an interest in it. I would like to thank the Minister on that.

One issue I wanted to talk about within the time frame I have is the climate change. I asked the community of Colville Lake, especially when I met with the elders in Colville Lake -- there was about 12 of them that I met with -- and one of the important things that the elders in Colville Lake talked to me about was the climate, the weather and the changing of the weather. They were very concerned about the fast changes of our weather. They’re having a hard time, sometimes, even to read the weather. They said the animals were having a hard time, because they notice the weather is changing on them pretty fast. So they were quite concerned.

I want to know if the Minister is looking at any type of traditional knowledge in terms of meeting with elders. I’d like to propose that the Sahtu elders get

together to talk about climate change and the weather and the impacts on the land and the water and the air.

As has been told to me by one resident in Colville Lake, when the elders speak up and they want to talk about an issue, then you need to pay real close attention, because that’s something that’s a concern for them. It’s only when the elders speak on this issue that we should act on it.

I know this government has done some good work on climate change. They have done some work on some initiatives. I wanted to ask about gathering some of the elders in my region to sit down and look at this issue in terms of from a traditional, users-of-the-land approach and very simple on what the elders are saying about climate change. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, the Department of ENR, of course, is very interested, as the government is as a whole, and our Traditional Knowledge Strategy, we’ve got money in the budget for implementation. We know we have money in the budget to deal with issues related to climate change, mitigation and adaptation. There are concerns about caribou. There are concerns about what’s happening to the water. There are concerns about what’s happening to the land. We’ve got money identified, for example, for studies on permafrost that can help us make better informed decisions in the appropriate, affected communities. So under that particular area there would be an opportunity to make sure that we engage the advice and the wisdom of the elders. Thank you.

I do want to let the Minister know we do appreciate the support he’s given in the past to some of the elders on other issues in terms of traditional knowledge. They have come forward and I’m not too sure how to take this in terms of engaging the elders on traditional knowledge. So I’m asking more specifically in terms of the Sahtu elders such as the ones in Colville, Fort Good Hope and Deline, they have expressed clearly to me, as in Tulita also, that they want to get together. These are the elders that have used the land and they know about the land and they want to talk about the climate change. They want to talk about this important issue to them. It means a lot if we can somehow have a gathering for them to sit and have a discussion amongst themselves in terms of this issue here. The Minister is saying that there’s money that’s identified. I’m not too sure if I’m reading it right in terms of engaging them. I’m asking now to be more specific to my region that I represent to have elders come together, sit for three or four days, and talk about climate change.

This is an issue, of course, across the whole Northwest Territories. We have some resources. We would

like to work at the regional level with our folks as well as the aboriginal governments, possibly the federal government and other possible interested NGOs, but I think if we collaborate we can come up with ways to take full advantage of the traditional knowledge and allow for the type of forum that would give us that input, but it’s going to take that kind of collaborative approach. I don’t think there’s any one organization that has the full resources to do this everywhere that there’s an interest, but collaboratively we could probably do something in each region. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Next on my list I have Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I just want to follow up from the biomass initiative and some geothermal initiatives from my riding. Of course, I’ve written to the Minister’s office in trying to move those forward, particularly the Jean Marie initiative. But I think the Minister’s...(inaudible)...may have slowed down there a bit, but it’s something that I think our government should, of course, continue to support. We’re looking for, I think, because of the technology that’s there and the capital program, I think some of the ideas out there, of course, are looking for pilot dollars. I noticed that on this page there, Mr. Chair, that we do fund other agencies and as well as, I think, initiatives like this where we may even need some federal financing from their department. So is there a coordinated effort or is that something that a particular community or business venture... Is it up to them to kind of find the different pots of money? Or else is there a coordinated function in ENR that can assist communities and/or businesses as they work through the process of establishing pilot projects? Because I think that’s something that we’re going to have to at least try to be helpful with, Mr. Chair. If the Minister can speak on that. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We work with the proponents. We, being the initiators and the pushers on this particular initiative, will also go to other governments, like the federal government. The challenge for us and community governments, as the Member knows, is we’ve been talking about it, we have an interested community but we are almost in a state of paralysis by analysis as we try to decide on the technology. Is there the perfect technology out there and if it is not, should we wait?

We have had the discussion but we have to, in year two, make some decisions with communities. We are doing good work with the territorial government retrofitting its own buildings, but in terms of actually doing the projects on a community basis, we have to make that determination and commit to the process and commit to the resources and at the

same time look for other funding that may be available depending on the magnitude and complexity of what is required. Thank you.

I think the key thing is that we just have to keep working with the communities and the different business groups. They are looking for these technologies and it is all about... I think we have to get to the stage of actually picking a project and actually piloting it. I know that some of the costs of some of the technologies can be overwhelming, but there are some projects that can be done on a smaller scale, probably with, I don’t know, mini units, Mr. Chairman.

In terms of biomass or in terms of geothermal or some of the other technologies out there, I think it can be done on a smaller scale just to see that it is achievable and doable. For example, in making wood pellets, the units don’t have to be very big, but I think that if there is a smaller unit out there and we are able to bring that in and prove and demonstrate that... Yes, the technology has changed, perhaps we can use other products besides only sawdust. I think that we should actually try it. I don’t think that we would be losing anything if we are trying our best to find and test the different technologies that are out there.

Of course, with biomass and wood pellet making, I think they have always said woodchips are the best, but at the same time, if there is no sawmill, maybe there is an industry in bringing in a chipper and selectively logging 50 percent dry wood or whatever it takes. I think that we should keep an open mind. We should not be limited. There has got to be a certain amount of stock of sawdust and or woodchips there, Mr. Chairman. I would encourage the department to keep an open mind. Let’s look at all the projects out there and let’s strive to see if we can actually develop a pilot project this coming year. Thank you.

We agree with the Member that we want to find even a smaller scale project. In a small community, if we could hook up two or three big buildings to a biomass heater like they have done at the jail here or like they have done in some of the other government facilities, but for the community.

The other broader issue for creating an industry is tied to that whole issue of sustainable forests around communities and access to land so that you can in fact manage the forests, do your fire protection but have a close by source of wood, be it for woodchips, firewood or pellets. We are looking at some of the portable technology that is out there that may be applicable both in the southern part of the Territory as well as farther north up into the Inuvik region. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to comment, especially on the potential that we have with our forest sector in the Northwest Territories. I think that it is a potential that we have never really developed in any sense of the word and the economic potential it has for job creation and job opportunities. More importantly, we need to use the resources around us, especially around our communities where we do have timber stands and forest stands. I think we also have to realize that we don’t want to cut down all the key forest stands. If anything, we should be using the by-products by way of willows. We are looking at what they call wood that is basically dead wood and harvest those types of species so that we don’t find ourselves in the situation where we are cutting all the good potential timber stands. We have to look at the other products that are around our communities and I think that we have to start considering potentials.

I know that we might not be able to look at the potential of having the wood pellet factory in the Northwest Territories, but I think we do have potential with woodchips and the technology that is out there now and having the equipment brought into our communities or have a community development corporation or through our renewable resource councils or individuals, consider that type of investment and look at the potential that we have in regards to biomass and heating our public facilities regardless of if it is a school or hamlet garage or fire hall or whatnot as a secondary heat system.

I think that we have to realize that the systems we are looking at are compatible with the systems we have already where you are going to have to have a secondary heat system anyway. I think that we should seriously consider looking at pilot projects like has been mentioned. I think that we should maybe consider looking at pilot projects in the immediate future in the different regions so that we could consider some means of getting this process going because I think that it is like anything else; education is key.

I think we also have to realize that we have been using wood products from the North thousands of years for heat and I think that people already can adapt to it and I think that we also have to realize that there are communities... I’ll use the community of Old Crow in the Yukon in which they built a brand new school and they heated it by a wood boiler. They harvest their trees and basically use that as the heat source for their school. I think that is something that we have to look at for where we have the potential timber stands, but, again, we have to look at more than just biomass. I think we have to look at the economics of it and the benefits that it has for small communities for job creation and I think, if anything, if we can even generate 10 jobs in a community that will go a long way to the

sustainability of our isolated communities. I think for me and also for the sake of the environment, where we have a win/win situation and weed ourselves off of the dependency of fossil fuels.

I would just like to question the Minister, considering there are forest inventories that have been done in certain regions, I know the Gwich’in Settlement Region have completed their forest inventory. They are working with the department to take it to the second step. So I would like to ask the Minister if he is seriously considering looking at pilot projects for those regions that are willing to take this on and consider looking at biomass as an alternate means of heating public facilities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. This Legislature made a very significant commitment, political commitment, to structure an infrastructure to change how we generate energy, how we distribute, how we use it, and to reduce our carbon footprint and get off diesel fuel. What we have to do with biomass, there is a number of steps and we are on the way to doing some of that. We have to build the market, which is get the biomass infrastructure into the communities that use it. Then we have to look at managing the forests as a secondary step. Right now we import a lot of the wood pellets. There is some firewood burning, but it is usually on a residential level just for block firewood. We have to then look at the possibility of managing the forests and then getting the infrastructure in place; the secondary value-added industry to look at providing the biomass product for the market that we are going to build up with our own government infrastructure and residential infrastructure.

In the Inuvik area, we are looking, as we speak, at how do we take advantage, for example of the fast growing willows and not, as the Member said, knock down prime wood. Though I would point out that across the country there is a recognition in the forest industry that the whole area of biomass is going to be probably their salvation as they experience significant decline in their other products that are available for the market. In the North we don’t have that concern, but we do have a concern about managing the forests and we’re committed to that whole process. Thank you.

One thing that I haven’t really noted from this department is the area of residual heat and I think we have to realize that there is that potential. I know that Fort McPherson has taken that on. They have a joint venture between the Gwich’in Development Corporation and the NWT Power Corporation, which that project has been working for several years now and in which, again, other communities are looking at that as a potential area and I don’t really see anything in your budget

here for that. I think that we have to realize that where a building is close enough to a power plant that has the ability to move the heat from the power plant to say the fire hall or a garage which is next door, I think that type of stuff has to be considered where we can take advantage of such facilities like diesel plants to generate that heat, but, more importantly, expand systems so that we are able to build on systems that are already in place.

Like I mentioned, the residual heat system in Fort McPherson, which is connected to the canvas shop, the water treatment plant, the school, the swimming pool. Again, I think we have to expand that to other facilities in the community. Also, if you’re looking at a capacity issue, I think that’s perfect for biomass and using it as the secondary system to reheat the system so that you’re not using diesel fuel to recharge the system and if you’re using wood that’s probably more environmentally sound.

So I’d just like to ask why haven’t you considered residual heat in the confines of some of the initiatives you’re looking at here. Thank you.

.In fact, through the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee there is funds in the budget for energy conservation and expansion of residual heat and its work through ITI and NTPC. There’s some feasibility work that was done last year, but it is one of our considerations in all the planning that’s done. It’s just not under the purview directly of ENR, but there are plans and funding and such that are through ITI and NTPC.

I believe probably the most fundamental foundations for moving on this initiative is going to have government policies, a directive that directs departments to make the change. Like with anything else, anything new, a lot of people are used to simply burning diesel fuel. You put it in the tank, you turn it on and you call the fuel truck next time you need it filled up, but just get people around the idea that we’re going to wean ourselves off of diesel fuel or fossil fuels and start looking at these new initiatives. So I’d just like to ask the Minister, is the government going to be coming forward with different types of policy frameworks so that departments have to consider these initiatives going forward and that we don’t do business as we always have.

I think, like anything else, you know, in Europe it took them basically 30 years to get to where they are today and at one time they were at 98 or 95 percent dependence on fossil fuel where now they’re down to 3 to 5 percent. I think that we have to look at a policy directive from government to the government departments that they have to take this on full stop and make a political statement that we are serious, that we are moving. So I’d just like to ask the Minister, will there be any policy framework

decisions coming forward on making this switchover.

I would suggest that the $60 million this Legislature and the business plans that have been approved and the direction that has been taken by the department is a clear reflection of the political decision by this Legislature. Public Works and Services has a very ambitious plan to continue the retrofits. We are looking at concluding all, as the Minister of MACA indicated, the community energy plans. We’re committed to working with communities to make the transition. As well, we have significant funds in the budget to encourage homeowners to convert to more energy efficient appliances or wood pellet stoves or other methods of heat that are not related to diesel. So we’re going to be on this and we are all across all the government departments, as well as with communities and I think there’s a recognition territory-wide that we’re on the start of a fundamental shift here as a Territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Next on my list I have Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a couple of questions relative to climate change and greenhouse gas emissions. I’d, first of all, like to talk about greenhouse gas emission targets. I know that the business plan talks about that we want to be 10 percent below 2001 levels by 2011. That target is fairly modest I guess I would say. I’d like to know from the Minister if there has been any consideration or if there’s going to be any consideration in this next fiscal year to increase the intensity of that reduction. Will we be able to set more stringent targets, I guess, for ourselves? Has that been discussed and if that’s the case, if that’s not the case... Well, I’ll just leave it at that. I’ll ask that question first. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I indicated in my comments, there is a plan to renew the Greenhouse Gas Strategy for the Northwest Territories. We want to do it by 2011. So in 2010 we are going to come up with a revamped process of how we do that. It’s going to be outward looking as opposed to just within governments and it’s going to probably take a much more critical, a more comprehensive look than was taken last time looking just at government operations. Thank you.

Thanks to the Minister for that. I’m sorry; I missed that in your remarks. I must have been snoozing. I guess I would like to know if the Minister could elaborate a bit. You’re talking about this plan being a little more expansive. Are you looking to pull in communities, to have communities as part of sort of the overall greenhouse gas emission targets, and/or are you looking to involve

individual residents so that they can adapt their activities to try and lower our greenhouse gas emissions? Thank you.