Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee would like to continue with the consideration of the capital estimates and today we would like to proceed with Public Works and Services and, time permitting, we want to move on to Education, Culture and Employment.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. On that note, we’ll take a short break.

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Thank you. I would like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We have before us today Tabled Document 66-16(5), NWT Capital Estimates 2011-2012. We are starting together with the Department of Public Works and Services. Is committee agreed?

I’d like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in witnesses. Mr. McLeod

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I’d like to bring in witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I’d like to ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses into the House.

If I could call on the Minister to introduce his witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me to my right is Mr. Paul Guy, the deputy minister of Public Works and Services; and I also have on my left Laurie Gault, director of Technology Service Centre.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Welcome, Mr. Guy, Ms. Gault. Committee, we have before us Public Works and Services, which starts on page 5-4 with asset management. Sorry, it starts with the summary on page 5-2, but we’re going to defer that until we’re completed the detail and start with asset management, which goes from page 5-3 through page 5-5. Financial summary, Public Works and Services, activity summary, asset management, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $12.527 million. Committee, on page 5-4, questions? Page 5-4, committee agree?

Next we have Technology Service Centre, which is from page 5-6 through page 5-8. Public Works and Services, activity summary, Technology Service Centre, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $1.3 million. Questions, committee? Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask the Minister about support for our agencies in the department within the government. In terms of electronic support and infrastructure, I know that there is some interest in electronic infrastructure for our health care operations in our small communities and with the whole accessing more infrastructure for our health centres. I’m not too sure if this is the place where I can ask about this in this department, if this department is heading up looking at putting in stronger infrastructure into our communities that require them, especially for our health centres and education in the schools, also.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Ms. Gault.

The specific phrase on bandwidth support, I’m looking more in the future of increasing that to our health centres in the small communities where they are now starting to have more technology that would have electronic medical records and being more transparent in the health centres to the larger centres where these records are available. Right now I know we still operate with the paper system and I think if there’s some indication from this department on areas they’re going to look at in the health centre on the specific issue of supporting our communities with implementing a health records system and the bandwidth that would support it. I know we’re also in competition with the schools. How do we start ensuring that our small community health centres will also receive some support in terms of medical records being instantly produced in the health centres so we can get greater access to health care to our people?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, the question is not in relationship to the capital and it’s not reflected in this plan. However, we are looking at going out for a new DCN contract very shortly

and we’re also looking at ways to increase our bandwidth. That, of course, will allow for more medical traffic in records. We are investing in this budget in server hardware and looking at network infrastructure and data storage infrastructure, and that will help to integrate some of the systems. There’s a budget of $1.2 million to deal with those changes, those improvements.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Good observation. I’ll ask the Members to try and remember to keep our questions to capital items and save programming questions for later. Moving on, we have Mr. Beaulieu next. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With committee’s indulgence, I’d like to ask questions on page 5-4 and 5-7. I didn’t have an opportunity to. I can proceed with that. I just wanted to ask the Minister a question relating to asset management on the deferred maintenance. I was wondering if the department is able to maintain their budget that will allow them to catch up with serious deferred maintenance items that are apparent in government buildings across the Territories. First question.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I gather that we have gone back to page 5-4. Let me just seek committee approval to return to page 5-4. Is committee agreed?

Thank you. The question stands. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, the issue of infrastructure deficit and deferred maintenance is of concern right across Canada. We’ve worked with a number of jurisdictions to try to bring that to the attention of the federal government. Within our own budgets and our own initiatives, we’ve targeted deferred maintenance as a priority. Over the last few years we’ve managed to bring that number down by $145 million from a huge challenge with the infrastructure deficit. We’ll continue to do so over the next while. We have targeted some dollars for this coming year and we would expect the next governments to do the same as we work towards eliminating that infrastructure deficit or the deferred maintenance. However, it’s going to be long term. What is the number now? The number will be reduced down to $325 million by the end of this coming fiscal year.

Thank you. Just one more question on that. Does the Minister anticipate that the government or departments will ever be able to catch up with deferred maintenance items?

That is our goal, as a government, to reduce the deficit on deferred maintenance. We have done quite well over the last few years and this is as a result of having a very good capital budget across the departments and

replacing a lot of the infrastructure that was very old and could not be upgraded. We’ve also done a lot of upgrades to buildings that needed it and we were able to address it. But there is still a fairly large deficit budget in the area of deferred maintenance, and I think that every government that comes on stream is going to have to tackle this issue and it will be around for some time. But the goal is to reduce it down to zero. I’m not sure how long that’s going to take, but it’s going to require continued investment over many years.

Is the Minister able to tell me if there is capital carry-overs in the deferred maintenance area, previous years or either just the last year, and if there’s any anticipation due to the majority of the construction season ending for this fiscal year, if there are carry-overs in this area, deferred maintenance? Thank you.

As the Member is aware, in the area of deferred maintenance we are certainly playing catch-up. The number for deferred maintenance was quite large. We’ve managed to reduce it by $145 million and we’ll always be working towards reducing it and trying to eliminate it. That might be difficult, of course.

Mr. Chairman, we’ve also managed to reduce our carry-overs from an historic amount of an average of about 35 percent down to 20 percent and some of those would have been in the area of deferred maintenance. I don’t know if we have that actual number at this point. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I’m finished questions on page 5-4. I’d like to ask questions on page 5-7, if that’s okay with committee.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. What we’ll do is we’ll conclude page 5-4. Public Works and Services, activity summary, asset management, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $12.527 million.

Page 5-7. Mr. Beaulieu, go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m wondering if the department has looked at alternatives to adding time on to the evergreening of the technology for the purposes of saving capital dollars. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Ms. Gault.

Mr. Chairman, with the amount of electronic waste that’s being produced in the world, I was wondering if there has been smaller components technology that can be added to the current stuff which is, in essence, evergreening the other computers and so on without actually changing the entire component. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Gault. Committee, we are on page 5-7. Public Works and Services, activity summary, Technology Service Centre, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $1.300 million.

Next, we have petroleum products division, which ranges from 5-9 through pages 5-11. We’re on page 5-10, financial summary, petroleum products division, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products division, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $475, 000.

Thank you, committee. This concludes the detail. We turn now to page 5-2 for the departmental summary, Public Works and Services, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $14.302 million. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask the Minister in terms of the infrastructure investment, in terms of all of our infrastructure and the amount of investment that we are putting in this capital plan here, in terms of the overall infrastructure with his department. What is the percentage number in terms of our investment? Are we at 10 percent? What percentage, if you have a percentage number? Ideally, we want to invest into our infrastructure, we want to invest, say, 100 percent; however, with the competing departments and dollars for infrastructure, we can only invest 10 percent of the total of this budget here. Where are we within DPW?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m not sure if we are in a position today to provide an actual percentage of what we are needing in terms of our infrastructure needs. If we looked at it in terms of our five-year needs for all of the government across all of the departments, our needs would probably total up to about $2.5 billion.

Mr. Minister, I would ask if you would clarify that number for me, please.

The number that I quoted for all our needs is around $2.5 billion or more, if we started including all the different needs from all the different departments for infrastructure, and that includes the Mackenzie Valley Highway and all the other pieces of infrastructure that have been identified as part of our needs.

Was there some mention of an under a five-year plan?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That would be on a five-year basis, yes. That would be a portion of the Mackenzie Valley Highway and other projects.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That’s quite a considerable amount of dollars here in terms of what the Minister has quoted on a five-year plan. I ask because of some of the infrastructure that’s desperately needed in our communities. We are hoping to see them come onto the capital plan in putting some good investment in there. I just wanted to thank the Minister for those numbers and the significance of the type of investment we need in the NWT in terms of our infrastructure within the GNWT.

It looks like we are going back to the general discussion, but just as a point of clarity, I didn’t say the $2.5 billion was part of our plan, it’s part of our needs. That’s a little different from our plan. Thank you.

Indeed, thank you, Minister. Anything further, Mr. Yakeleya?

No, it’s okay.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. So once again, committee, we are on page 5-2, the departmental summary for Department of Public Works and Services, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $14.302 million. Committee agree?

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that that

concludes the Department of Public Works and Services?

Thank you, committee. I also understand we also have the Department of Education, Culture and Employment before us. Mrs. Groenewegen, do you confirm that?

I just wanted to find out, Mr. Chairman, what time is it now.

Oh, we’ve got lots of time. Yes, let’s proceed with Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. I’d like to thank the Minister of Public Works and Services. Thank you, Mr. McLeod, and thanks to your witnesses. Could I ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses from the House.

I would like to ask the Minister of ECE if he would like to bring in witnesses today. Minister.

Yes, Mr. Chair, I would.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. May I ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the new witnesses into the Chamber.

If I could ask Mr. Lafferty to please introduce your witness.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I have with me Mr. Dan Daniels, deputy minister of ECE. Mahsi.

Thank you, Minister. Welcome, Mr. Daniels. Committee, we have on page 8-2, the departmental summary and we’re going to defer that for Education, Culture and Employment until we’ve completed detail. So advanced education is pages 8-3 through 8-5 and we’ll look at the financial summary for this section, this division on page 8-4, Education, Culture and Employment. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I did make some comments on the opening of the capital budget. I made some comments about education. I am particularly concerned that the Education, Culture and Employment capital plan doesn’t include any projects for the city of Yellowknife. We have a number of schools within the city that were on the plan last year. When we reviewed capital last year, there was some indication that a couple of schools would be on the plan for this year and they are no longer.

When you look at the capital plan, there are really only two major capital projects in the ECE plan this year. One is Diamond Jenness School in Hay River and the other is the two schools in Inuvik. Those

are ongoing capital projects which have been going for a couple of years and they will go on for a couple more years.

But I asked some questions of the Finance Minister and the Minister for Public Works, when they were here during opening comments, about the 10-year education facility plan for Yellowknife. That plan has been in the works for awhile. It was finished, I believe, in May of this year and it was shared with some Members. So I asked the Minister, during opening comments, why the recommendations from that Yellowknife education facility plan were not reflected in the capital budget that we have before us. The answer that I got was that the YK school plan is something we think will be a very valuable document; however, the document was not completed at the time we put our capital budget together.

I would like to ask the Minister of Education why, if this facility plan was done in May and was shared with Members sometime in the spring -- I can’t quite remember when, I think it was in May or early June -- that would seem to be to me quite enough time to get at least one project or at least some indication where these projects will fit in a capital plan into this 2011-12 capital budget.

So having kind of a longwinded way around this, the question to the Minister is: Since we have a facility plan for the educational facilities in Yellowknife, and since we have an Aurora College lease which expires in 2012, why do we not have any indication of the recommendations of this facility plan in this current capital budget? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Minister.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This particular plan has been completed in May that deals with the Yellowknife facilities. Part of the reason why it wasn’t, as the Member alluded to, part of this capital planning project that is before us today is that we wanted to consider all options that were before us to consider as we move forward. At that time it was still in the works concerning those options. But now we have those plans in place and this will definitely be part of next year’s capital planning process.

We talk about the facilities in Yellowknife and they have been highlighted. The college that the Member talked about is also part of the package that we are going to discuss for next year’s planning process as well.

We realize the expiry date on the lease is 2012 and time is of the essence right now. So that’s earmarked for next year’s capital plan. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate that it will be into the next year’s capital plan, but that’s fiscal year 2012-

13 and if the Aurora College lease expires in 2012, that is going to be a pretty tight squeeze to get any kind of a facility ready for Aurora College in the year 2012 when that’s the capital budget year. But I will leave it at that in terms of the timing.

I am particularly concerned with two schools in Yellowknife: Mildred Hall School and J.H. Sissons School. Mildred Hall has recently had a renovation, but there was a portion of that renovation which did not get done due to a lack of funds, from what I understand. Sissons School is very due for a renovation and an addition. It’s a school that was built in the ‘70s and it’s an open classroom concept. It was on the books a year or so ago and now it is not.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. It sounds like you are onto the next division. We’re sticking with advanced education. Aurora College questions are completely appropriate here, but if we are talking about schools explicitly, that would be the next section. I’ll let you clarify what we are asking about here. Thank you. Ms. Bisaro.

My apologies, Mr. Chair. I got caught up in the moment. It’s a facility plan for all of Yellowknife, so I will keep my question until later. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I understand the complexity of this, so let’s complete this section, committee. Any other questions, committee, on advanced education? Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The capital infrastructure for colleges, under the budget there’s minor capital upgrades to various college facilities. I noticed that in Yellowknife Campus or college, a lot of students from the Sahtu have come to go to school here and also they have used their facility to upgrade or attend some of the courses here. Some of them have vehicles, and parking space is very limited around the college campus. Also, winter is coming and they use their vehicles to go back home and they need proper plug-ins or insulation at this campus. I’m not sure what the process is or if the department can look at this situation. When it gets cold, these vehicles could freeze up and it’s going to cost more for these poor students, who just barely make it on the funding that they have, to look for additional costs to get their vehicles repaired if anything happens in terms of freeze-up. Has this been looked at by this department, minor capital infrastructure for colleges, for plug-ins for parking stalls at the Yellowknife Campus here?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This particular discussion that the Member is referring to is small capital projects. They could be

part of the discussions we will continue to have with the college. The college usually identifies minor or major repairs to the facility. We realize that the parking area is of concern for students. So those are discussions we will have with the college. We will be meeting with the college board of governors within a month, I believe. This discussion we’ll be having with them as well. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

I certainly hope the Minister keeps us informed as to the results of their discussions with the board of governors and the college and whether there is going to be any type of small infrastructure dollars go into having a proper parking facility with proper plug-ins for the vehicles. A lot of these vehicles don’t have plug-ins. I’m also speaking from last year’s experience and this year’s experience. This issue has yet to be addressed in a serious manner. I am very cautious as to the Minister’s caution on continued discussions. I’d like to see where there is an implementation plan to put in these proper facilities for our students who are in college and who want to obtain a higher degree to have a very good career for themselves. This is one of the things they need to be concerned about. Sometimes we need to allow our students to focus more on their studies so they can have a good career in life. So this is something I look forward to; the results of his meetings with the appropriate bodies to make this happen.

Yes, this will likely be an item for discussions, because we are planning for next year. I am meeting with the chairs -- that includes Aurora College -- at the end of next month. We are discussing various areas of programming and also capital infrastructure. There are three parking stalls slated for students at the Aurora College. It hasn’t been brought to my attention specifically, but the Member is alluding to that, so we can definitely discuss this area. Mahsi.

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. We have Mr. Ramsay next.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to talk a little bit about a dedicated campus for Aurora College here in Yellowknife. I’m starting to sound like a broken record. Year in and year out Members talk about getting out of the facility we are in here in Yellowknife and getting into a dedicated educational setting, a stand-alone facility here in Yellowknife. That’s something that has to be a goal of the department and the college. That needs to happen sooner rather than later. The lease is coming up in the next couple of years at the current location and I think we should be exploring all options when it comes to getting a dedicated campus facility here in Yellowknife. So, again, I’d like to ask the Minister where exactly in the planning is the dedicated, stand-alone college facility here in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This particular piece of work has been an ongoing discussion for a number of years now. It has been brought up in this House as well. As you know, the way things are going with our economy, this could be a $60 million or $70 million infrastructure. We need to start talking about that as part of our capital project for the next few years. We are also talking about potential partners out there that we are exploring options. We’ve been approached about lease-buyback and various options that various organizations have offered. Those are just some of the discussions we are having, Mr. Chair, as we move forward on the options of possibly having a stand-alone infrastructure for the college. At the same time, we’ve offered options to the school boards as well. Those are in the planning stages. We’ve given them an opportunity and now that will be part of next year’s planning process for the capital projects. Mahsi.

I thank the Minister for that. When you are looking at potential partners, it’s often been discussed locally and in this House and certain circles around the Territory about the lack of a university north of 60. I think if you are asking the right questions in pursuing the federal government, there may be some dollars there if a university is going to be built north of 60. I’d like to see it built in the Northwest Territories, built here in Yellowknife hopefully.

Obviously it’s going to be a big capital expense. I think 60 or 70 million dollars would be on the low side. If you look at the school in Inuvik, that’s $120 million. So I think it would be something in the magnitude of that type of expense.

We just don’t have those types of capital dollars right now. I guess I’d implore you to seek out the federal government. Start talking university. There’s no reason why we couldn’t have a university here in the Northwest Territories, a degree granting institution -- I think it’s long overdue -- and the research dollars that would go with that. There are options out there and I think we need to, again, look at everything.

The facility needs assessment that was conducted last year, how the college fits into that and whether or not you could have gotten something into this capital plan, I guess that’s a little bit debatable because we did have that and that was a year ago. So I’m a bit disappointed. I think nothing related to the college shows up in this capital plan. But I know it’s a big one and I know you guys are working on it, but again I think there was some time there to come up with a workable plan, a solution, and it’s just not here. That’s just the way it is. So, again, for next year I think we have to be working towards that. The utilization of existing facilities has to be

addressed. We have to get down that road. If that involves a dedicated college campus for Aurora College, that’s something we need to know.

Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I hope to be around next time when it’s discussed again. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. A comment there, but, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. This particular discussion that we have been having about the university of the North, I have met with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister Strahl, when he was still the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister at that time, and discussed the possibility of having a university bricks and mortar, but at the same time they want to expand on our existing campuses as opposed to bricks and mortar.

There was a recent announcement from the Prime Minister, or a statement on reintroducing discussion on the university of the North, so we are trying to get more detailed information from that particular statement that was made.

At the same time, I did meet with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister’s representative on the university of the North and tried to get more information as to what was said, and we are working closely with Mr. Duncan’s office, John Duncan, the new Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister. It is not only us as the Northwest Territories but also Yukon and Nunavut. I am working closely with my colleagues, both Ministers, and the discussion we had the last time we met with Minister Strahl was building on our existing campuses, but now it sounds like the focus has changed and we will be pursuing even further with Mr. Duncan.

I put in a letter to Mr. Duncan and other federal Ministers to meet with them to discuss this further, and I am hoping that we can see some positive outcome out of that. Of course, we want to see that in the Northwest Territories, but that will be a battle I will have with my two colleagues. Mahsi.

I would like to see a university north of 60 as well, but, like the Minister said, there is going to be competition for the first university north of 60 with Nunavut and the Yukon. And even though we work closely with both of our friends to the east and to the west, this will be a competition, and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the Government of the Northwest Territories has to put their best foot forward if a decision is going to be made and some sizeable dollars to build a university north of 60. We need to, I’d say, get out in front of this and develop a sales pitch and plan to take to the federal government. I don’t think we should be just waiting for them to come to us, I think we should go to them and it

should be a full court press on the federal government showing them the existing infrastructure that we have here in comparison to, let’s say, Whitehorse, and you could include Iqaluit in that.

There are campuses, I believe a dedicated campus in Iqaluit, but there is one in Whitehorse too for their college system. We would have to get in and get a look at what the competition has and make a case for the Northwest Territories being the location of that university. I wish the Minister well and if there is anything that the Regular Members can do to help in those efforts with the federal government, I would like to know that, because we would be more than happy to help. Thank you.

I totally agree with the Member. We have to tackle it from all angles in all venues where we possibly can. Like I said, I am working with representatives from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs office. One area that we highly stress is scientific research funding through the federal government, so that is in the works and we have shared that information with our federal counterparts.

Just so the Members know, I am also the spokesperson for my colleagues, Nunavut and Yukon, when it comes to talking about the university of the North, so it has been a very productive discussion so far. The next step would be, of course, to meet with the new Minister. Another venue that Members can possibly promote more of this would be NWT Day that we have been talking about. So those are the discussions that we will continue to have with our federal counterparts.

Just in closing, I want to again wish the Minister well with the discussion with the federal government. I think we are a central location, we have geography in our favour, obviously, being in the middle. We have a need, we have a lease expiring on a very expensive piece of real estate that we are currently occupying and the need is there. I think it is up to us to show that we have the need, that we need to get out of a costly situation that we are currently in. We are going to be looking at building a dedicated college campus, so it would only make sense that if we are going to do that, then we should talk to the federal government about getting some capital dollars and making it a degree granting institution and university.

All I can say is this is an area of high interest for us as a department, especially with a lease that is coming up and due. We have had some discussions with the federal government and will definitely push with our existing current infrastructure right now, the pressing need. Like I say, we will continue with pressing the federal government. Mahsi.

Thank you Minister Lafferty. Committee, we are on page 8-4, advanced education. Next I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Mr. Chairman, I do agree with Mr. Ramsay’s comments in terms of the North needing a university. It seems that we have some pressing issues that we need to put together for the Minister. As Mr. Ramsay indicated, there are some things that we should really take this opportunity to press hard with the federal Minister to look at a university in the Northwest Territories for building our case. I hope that we have the opportunity to make a strong case to the federal government.

The Minister alluded to the NWT Day as something that we could do. I think that the North does need a university now, we are at prime time to have a university and I think with the funding that we do have with our leases, it certainly can go towards a university in the North here. I think the most logical location right now would be in the capital city here. We need to have that discussion with all Members here, as to this opportunity here.

I think, Mr. Minister, you need to let the Minister know that we need a university; bottom line, that is it. Let’s start putting our things together.

I want to ask the Minister, in terms of infrastructure dollars and the opportunities that he may see within his department or within other departments in terms of the Sahtu has been asking for a technology training institution and what type of infrastructure dollars that the Sahtu leadership can tap into if they were to build an institution. Would the department be interested in leasing it off them when looking at facilities? There are some goals and aspirations of the leadership to build a Sahtu institution of technology, so I want to ask the Minister has he an indication as to what type of opportunities are there for the leadership to put together a package to build a Sahtu institute of technology training centre in our region and if it is possible to have some discussions with our leadership on this very specific potential project. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Definitely the option is there for the Sahtu leadership to pursue that. We will need some sort of a Sahtu needs assessment as we move forward to next year’s capital planning project. We did already hear bits and pieces of the training centre at the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative while we were in the Sahtu, so it is in our discussions. Definitely if the Sahtu leadership want to push this further, then by all means they have the options to do that as well. But we do need the needs assessment.

Certainly the Minister is correct; he did hear it from the aboriginal chief at the

initiative symposium we had in the Sahtu on our leadership’s wishes. What in the capital infrastructure, capital planning dollars, study dollars, needs to keep the process to look at a planning study or needs assessment that would, you know, you have to do one step at a time to have a university in the North or a Sahtu institution of technology training centre in the Sahtu off and running. What would it take for this Minister to say yes, let’s put this into a five-year capital plan or even a 20-year capital plan?

We do have regional representatives in each region that can definitely work with the community leadership. If they want to pursue certain projects or capitals in the region, we are in support of that, having our representative there.

We need to start planning for next year. What are the essential needs in the regions and communities? As the Member alluded to, what is the process? The process will be to sit down with the leadership and if it needs the involvement of the school boards, then they are there as well. ECE is represented from the region and my department is willing to work with that as well.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Committee, we’re on page 8-4, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, advanced education, total infrastructure investment summary, $1.387 million. Is committee agreed?

Turn to our next division, education and culture, which ranges from page 8-6 through page 8-8 with the financial summary for this division. Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to ask the Minister, in the area of early childhood development, what the overall plan to address daycare needs is. I’m talking about capital here, physical structures, daycare space essentially. In the two communities that I represent, one community daycare and any of the early child care work that is so central to both communities is in an old trailer. They’re constantly putting money into it. I don’t think the department owns the trailer. I think it’s actually rented from the band. The other community of Lutselk’e has no daycare space at all. They’re in the community hall or I think they’ve tried a couple of other buildings. I just want to know if the department feels they have a responsibility to provide daycare space in the communities. That’s it.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. When it comes to capital for, let’s say, child care or a daycare, we do not provide capital infrastructure funding but we do provide O and M to

cover the operational costs. We’ve had similar requests in other regions as well, but some other regions have been successful in obtaining some partnerships, whether it be the community First Nation or a corporation that forms a partnership with a certain organization. They’ve come to us to seek funding on the O and M costs. We’ve also geared them towards the federal area as well, because there are different piles of funding and they could possibly access some sort of capital dollars through that venue. With our GNWT, through the ECE department we don’t provide capital for child care or daycare, but we do provide O and M costs.

I feel that this is a good place for capital for daycares. I think that the students that are starting kindergarten that have gone through daycare and have been in some preschool programs that run usually out of daycares come into the school quite advanced and ready to take on kindergarten when the kindergarten age comes around and they go into the schools and so on. Because of the importance of this to education, if the daycares were to be somehow incorporated into the envelope of the schools in these communities, would the department consider looking at capital costs of providing daycares to the communities?

The current and existing daycares and child care facilities are run by not-for-profit organizations or private sectors. So we don’t own those buildings. That’s part of the reason why we haven’t gotten into capital projects for that specific area. We’ve made some changes to our programming. It does reflect on some of the mortgage payments. Just thinking or changing our policies to reflect on the cost of operating, we do have some or have made some changes at that level when it comes to O and M and try and be creative and innovative. There have been some changes on the mortgage payment for daycare facilities. That’s the area that we continue to improve on.

I’m just recognizing what the tangible assets are, I guess, capital assets or something that the GNWT has ownership of. If the GNWT does not have ownership of the daycare buildings, is the department in any sort of position to do infrastructure contributions to the communities to upgrade or build new daycares in the communities?

I don’t have the numbers right now, but we do have a vast variety of child cares and daycares in the Northwest Territories. When it comes to infrastructure, they will fall under that as well. There are quite a few. We’re talking millions, not a couple hundred thousand. I think we need to be very careful on approaching this particular area. We have discussed it in the past, but, like I said, with O and

M we can be somewhat flexible in making those changes.

I understand where the Member is coming from and I need to work with that with possibly through the O and M, what else can we improve on so we can strengthen or provide more of the improved programming dollars or O and M dollars to the facilities that the Member is alluding to. I’ll leave it at that. O and M is definitely an area that we can look at for improvements.

Just shifting gears for a minute; high school career and technology studies. I was wondering if there’s a plan to put high school career and technology studies into all high schools.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I’m assuming that’s restricted to the capital aspects of it as well. Mr. Beaulieu.

Sorry, Mr. Chairman. All schools that have high school students. That’s what I meant. Just to clarify.

The way the process works is that usually the school boards provide us applications on their needs. If CTS is required, or for upgrade, then there is funding available for that. I believe it’s upwards of $400,000. Those are numbers that we work with. It’s all based on the application from the school boards on their needs.

That’s good. I know the CTS is going to be opening a shop, I think, after so many years of having a shop in Fort Resolution. Deninu School closed and we’re having an opening in November. Also, I guess because I’m aware that my concern has been trying to find space and include some sort of a career technology studies for the high school students in Lutselk’e. With the information that the Minister has provided me, I will contact the schools and proceed that way.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next we have the long-delayed question from Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll try not to do such a long preamble since I kind of did it once already. I’m referencing a couple of schools in Yellowknife, particularly Mildred Hall School and J.H. Sissons School. Mildred Hall has fairly recently had a renovation but it wasn’t all completed. Sissons is long overdue. Well, I shouldn’t say overdue, but certainly due for a renovation, and I believe it was a priority on the department’s list for renovations as much as six or eight months ago. I’m dismayed to see that neither of these two schools have any... There are no plans in the capital budget for either of these schools and no plans in future years either. I’d like to know from the Minister where both of these projects are. How urgent is J.H. Sissons School renovation and

addition, and where on the timeline is the finishing of Mildred Hall School?

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. For J.H. Sissons School there was a request that’s been brought forward on Public Works and Services to complete an updated 2002 technical status evaluation. This review was completed in September 2010. Although the building does require renovation, there are no immediate health or safety issues identified at this time. This could be part of next year’s capital plan as we move forward. That’s part of the reason why it wasn’t part of this, along with other pressing urgencies of other projects. I’ll get Mr. Daniels to address Mildred Hall and maybe if he wants to elaborate more on J.H. Sissons as well.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Daniels.

Mr. Chairman, I will talk about Mildred Hall first. I appreciate and I am thankful to hear that Mildred Hall is going to be considered at some point in time. I look at the capital needs assessment that we received a little while ago and note that there is no money indicated for Mildred Hall until the fiscal year 2013-14, which is a fairly long time down the road. I would hope that the finishing of those renovations is going to be before that.

With regards to Sissons, the Minister mentioned a technical study was just recently completed and did an analysis of one of the things he mentioned was safety of the facility. I guess there is no urgent need to do renovations at that school, because I think the Yellowknife Public School Board has done an extremely good job of keeping up on the various schools and their system. They do an excellent job of maintenance and upkeep of the schools.

I need to reference the safety issue. All schools in the NWT now have a lockdown procedure in case of any kind of an emergency. Sissons, due to its open school concept, is unable to be put into a

lockdown situation. Certainly Mr. Abernethy has expressed this before and I would agree with him, that then creates, in my mind, a safety issue for the students and the staff of J.H. Sissons School. If there ever was an incident within that school where a lockdown is required, they cannot be put into a safe situation. Where is the issue of an inability to do a lockdown in a school? Where does that sit on the list of safety issues and the list of priority issues for a building? Thank you.