Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses in.

If I could ask the Minister to please introduce his witnesses.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. With me I have Ms. Bronwyn Watters, my deputy minister of Justice; and also Kim Schofield, director of finance. Mahsi.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. I’d now like to open the floor up to general comments on the Department of Justice. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Just an opportunity to comment on the Department of Justice and most particularly policing. Not so much in this fiscal year’s budget, but in last year’s budget, in terms of community policing for smaller communities, I am very pleased that the House supported two positions for the community of Fort Simpson dedicated towards a long-term goal of establishing a detachment in the community of Wrigley. The increased patrols are welcome for the community. However, they are still supportive of a full-time detachment.

In the course of the discussion with the RCMP, there is no current capital plan in the federal department to actually build a detachment or have a mobile detachment in the community of Wrigley. They do have patrol cabin type of facilities available, which is commendable. They are doing more frequent visits to the community of Wrigley on a patrol basis, but in the long term. So I’ve taken to lobby our federal counterpart, our Member of Parliament, Mr. Dennis Bevington, to see if we can pursue that federally and at this time I’d like to ask the Minister if he can do the same. You know, establishing that detachment and fulfilling the commitment to get the detachment in the community of Wrigley. With the onset of development, of an increased highway system, of potentially a pipeline, that’s certainly something that will not only benefit Wrigley, but the North as a whole having another point of safety in terms of having RCMP officers at the community of Wrigley. So certainly I seek continued support from our government in pressing that matter and raising it with the federal Minister should our Minister have the opportunity.

Just recently I had a constituency meeting in the community of Fort Simpson. I had a fellow who was concerned about... To him it appears that there seems to be a lack of visibility of RCMP patrols. I think most particularly, if I can bring up a good example, is that several years ago there used to be a foot patrol program in the community of Simpson. I don’t know if it was a territorial-wide initiative, but just that kind of visibility goes a long ways for a community to see our members of our police force in the community interacting, engaging in the community and it goes a long ways towards prevention, I believe. So I do support his point of view. I don’t know why it was stopped, but I don’t know if the Minister can bring it up when he meets with the RCMP, as well, that that’s something that residents appreciated and I don’t know if they can work towards it again or some similar type of program, and the same goes in all the communities that we have detachments in. I think our members being more visible just so they gain the confidence of the community that the members are there caring for our residents and the community. Because when they’re not too visible, then I as an MLA certainly do get lots and lots of comments that you never see the RCMP around. However, they’re there and they’re doing their best, but I still think and I support the residents that a more visible RCMP force goes a long way to garner continued public support.

I just wanted to raise those couple of issues with regard to the Department of Justice, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Menicoche. Next on my list is Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of things on the Department of Justice. I have talked to the Minister about the promotion and the way that aboriginal employees in the corrections system can expect to move their careers along. We’ve had a back and forth here last week on a situation that I’ve encountered with a constituent. I know the department is doing its best to try to recruit aboriginal people into the corrections field, but you have to nurture, foster and develop these employees so that they can ultimately take on mid-management and senior management positions within corrections. To not do that I think is doing a disservice to the people we’re hiring at the very start. I think the Minister understands that and I hope the department does, too, that there’s some improvement that’s needed there.

A couple other things I wanted to mention, and I’ve mentioned this to the Minister in the past, but when we look at opportunities for economic development here in the Northwest Territories I often think that given the aging infrastructure of federal penitentiaries in southern Canada, the federal

government is going to have to build a new penitentiary somewhere in this country and with that would come 350, 400 jobs and it would be a big-time economic boost to any community that a federal penitentiary could be located in. I’ve asked the Minister previously to have that discussion with the federal Minister of Justice to at least run it by him and say that we’re interested, we’re looking for opportunities to attract people to the Northwest Territories and get people to live here and what better opportunity than a federal penitentiary? I mean, that would be a big win for the Northwest Territories if we could get a federal penitentiary located in one of our communities here in the Northwest Territories. So I think that’s something we should try to stay on top of, because ultimately a decision will be made to build a new federal penitentiary and it should be located in the Northwest Territories, if we have anything to say about it or we can lobby the right people to make that happen.

I’ve spoken about this before, too, but I’ll just raise it again while I’ve got the floor. I don’t think the government should close the door completely on this courthouse issue here in Yellowknife. You know, it’s a big expenditure of dollars, yes, but it’s a piece of public infrastructure representing the judiciary that will be in place for many, many years. If you look at any other capital city around this country, or a commonwealth for that matter, I mean, they have dedicated courthouse facilities. Our courthouse here, oftentimes we find ourselves having to patch it up and spend little pots of capital dollars here and there on trying to shore that facility up and we’ve probably paid for that building ten times over, Mr. Chairman. To me it would make sense to finally just bite the bullet, get a courthouse, a dedicated facility here. If it’s in conjunction with some other government office space requirements... I know the program review office just went through an office space requirement study here in Yellowknife, which indicated that the Government of the Northwest Territories should proceed and construct a 6,000 square metre office building here in Yellowknife. The first thing I thought of was, well, if they’re going to construct a 6,000 square foot office building, maybe the courthouse could be incorporated into that somehow, someway for economies of scale and maybe a lot of the Justice staff could be located in that new office building. It would be something I think that’s worth investigating further, Mr. Chairman. Again, I was sad to see the government close the door on the courthouse and it’s something I think you can expect to hear me talk about more in the next little while, and hopefully one day I’m around to see it actually happen, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a few general comments in regard to the budget for Justice. Initially, I believe that the position of the chief coroner is being reinstated to a government position and I do support that. I think that’s a good move.

Also a good move I think is the emphasis on increased policing. We’ve added some members and a detachment in this last year, and I will have some questions as to the timing of the planned rollout of other detachments as we go forward when we get to that section.

I also note that there’s an increase in legal aid services with the establishment of, I forget what it’s called, but there is a new office being established and I totally support that. I think that we have quite a lack of legal aid services and anything that we can do to increase that and to provide services to our residents is going to be a benefit.

I am supportive of the Not Us! campaign, which the Minister brought to the House in a statement a little while ago. It sounds like it’s going to be a good program and I think it’s probably going to generate some excitement in some of the communities. My concern is that there be an evaluation of the program after six months or a year to see whether or not it’s working. I would hope that if this budget comes back to us in a year’s time, that there will be some indication whether or not this program is working and whether there’s some results from it. I know, you know, a year is often not long enough, but I would encourage the Minister to plan to do an evaluation.

Similarly, we recently started two new programs, a mediation and parenting programs after separation and divorce. I believe those started maybe six or eight months ago, and I guess I would like to also encourage the Minister in this area to provide an evaluation of whether or not these programs are working well or not working, but just an evaluation in general so that we, again, know whether or not these new programs that we put in place are actually being beneficial. So just down the road, I would be looking for evaluations on those two programs.

I am encouraged that we are continuing with the Action Plan on Family Violence and that we are putting phase 2 into place. I know this is several departments that are doing this program together, and I know Justice does have a hand in it, so I’m glad to see that there’s some money in the budget to encourage parts of this program and that Justice is taking one part of it.

My last comment. The Minister has heard this before and I will continue to push this issue, but I think there is a need within the government and the Territory for an ombudsman’s office, and I would encourage the Minister and the department to look at this issue again. I know he has told me that it’s

been looked at a number of years ago and it was determined that it wasn’t necessary, but more and more and more I am seeing, my office is seeing difficulties that residents have with one body or another and it just points me more and more in the direction of the need for an impartial person outside the courts to deal with some of these disputes. That’s all I have. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I don’t have anybody else on my list. Does committee agree that there are further general comments?

If I could ask Minister Lafferty to respond.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, first of all, the Wrigley detachment, this has been in the works for the last couple of years now and it’s still there. We’re still committed. I’m glad that the MP is doing part of the job representing the Northwest Territories at the federal level. We continue to do that continuously every time we meet at the federal/provincial/territorial Ministers meeting. Wrigley and Gameti have always been addressed at every meeting that we’ve gone to. So we’ll continue to do that.

Mr. Chair, we have a joint discussion that’s ongoing with the Housing Corporation and also the RCMP, because we have to deal with the infrastructure. So it is in the works. It’s just supposed to be scheduled for next year, 2001. So right now we’re having more discussion with the new guy that’s coming on stream, Mr. Blake, the commanding officer, who has started today. So I will be sitting down with him again. I already met with him before he started his new role. Mr. Chair, it’s not being ignored. Those particular two detachments are high priority on our target list, so we’ll continue to push that.

Just on another area where direction where corrections and aboriginal employees, yes, Mr. Ramsay has raised this issue in the House. It is of importance to our department to promote more aboriginals in the system. We are developing a plan of action in that respect and so we certainly want to see more aboriginal people move up within the system. I agree with Mr. Ramsay that these individuals that are in the system should be fostered and nurtured and trained to move up in the development stages. That should be the case and that’s the area that we need to seriously look at across the board. It’s not just our Justice department, but HR also has a strategy in place, as well, for all departments.

Yes, the aging infrastructure, potentially a penitentiary institution. We haven’t really raised that issue at the federal level as of yet because we were dealing with the courthouse a while back and we had to set our priorities. What’s more important,

that should be before us. The way things are going there are all these different activities that are playing before us. But at the same time, Mr. Chair, we are not closing the door on the courthouse. It’s still there. It’s just that we haven’t been really focused in that area because there are all these community programs that are happening. If we need to go that avenue, then I need to get support from the Regular Members on what is our top priority. So those are areas of discussion we need to continuously have here in the House.

Mr. Chair, the chief coroner reappointment has been in the works for quite some time and finally it’s coming into play. We are making progress in that area.

Of course, increasing policing, we’ve heard over and over from small communities that they want an increased presence of RCMP. So with this new commanding officer we’re also pushing for more presence, as Mr. Menicoche alluded to and Mr. Krutko in the past. Increased presence of RCMP in the community makes a big difference. So those are the areas that we need to strengthen with the new commanding officer, and we’ll continue to make a lot of noise in that area.

Yes, the Not Us! campaign, there is an evaluation built into that. So we’ll be coming back to the standing committee as we make progress, what we’ve learned, is it’s working. The same with the other, whether it be the separation program, the family violence, the mediation, all these different programs that we do have, there are evaluations attached to them as well. I agree with Ms. Bisaro that we need to come back and re-look at the whole picture six months, a year down the road, if we need to invest more or if it’s not working should we look at other areas.

Then, finally, the ombudsman. Yes, it’s been brought in this House, as well. Mr. Chair, all I can say at this point is I’ll continue to work with my colleague and the Executive. This is an area that if it’s high importance by Regular Members, as you know, there are cost factors to it. So those are areas that we can certainly explore. At this point we’re at the discussion stages with this new office that has been talked about. I think that’s the overall discussion. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Committee, would you like to proceed with detail?

Thank you, committee. On page 9-7 is the department summary, which we will defer until we’ve considered the detail. So starting on page 9-8, Department of Justice, information item, infrastructure investment summary. Questions?

Page 9-9, information item, revenue summary. Ms. Bisaro.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I note on this page that there’s a fairly large drop in revenue under exchange of services, down almost $1.1 million. I wonder if I can get an explanation on why. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Ms. Schofield.

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Committee, page 9-9, information item, Department of Justice, revenue summary. Questions?

Page 9-10, information item, active position summary. Questions? Ms. Bisaro.