I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to together. We have before us the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. I’d like to ask the Minister if he has any opening remarks.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am here to present the 2011-12 main estimates for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. The plan proposes total operational expenses of almost $67.5 million for the upcoming year, an increase of 2.6 percent.

The mandate of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources is to promote and support the sustainable use and development of natural resources and to protect, conserve and enhance our environment for the social and economic benefit of all residents.

A range of activities is proposed to uphold this mandate and I would like to take this opportunity to highlight a few key investments planned for the coming fiscal year.

Mr. Chair, during 2011-12, ENR, working in collaboration with our partners, proposes to spend $1.5 million to implement the NWT Water Stewardship Strategy. This includes continued community and Aboriginal Steering Committee engagement on the implementation of actions to conserve and protect our waters as well as support

for the negotiations of transboundary water agreements with neighbouring jurisdictions and the implementation of the Canada-wide Strategy for Municipal Wastewater Effluent.

As a government we have committed to conserve energy through the use of alternative energy technologies. ENR’s commitment to the Energy Investment Plan in 2011-12 includes the Business Support Program and the support for geothermal technology.

The Business Support Program is one of the commitments of the electricity review to assist NWT businesses in implementing projects that would reduce their power, transportation and heating costs.

ENR will provide the Arctic Energy Alliance with $350,000 in funding to develop, pilot, implement and monitor strategies aimed at barriers preventing businesses from using efficient and renewable energy practices to reduce both costs and greenhouse gas emissions.

The department will build on analysis done last year on the potential use of deep geothermal heat energy to generate electricity and community/residual district heating. During 2011-12, ENR will invest $400,000 to work with interested communities to further define the potential on a local scale. In particular, ENR will work with the Acho Dene Koe in Fort Liard to develop a detailed feasibility analysis of a geothermal plant, which could meet the electricity needs of the community.

Mr. Chair, another major initiative the department is proposing for 2011-12 is the implementation, if approved, of a new Wildlife Act to protect, conserve and manage wildlife in the Northwest Territories. Activities needed to implement the new legislation include officer training, development of new forms, permits, hunter education, public awareness programs, as well as harvest studies and reporting systems. The department’s main estimates include $500,000 for these activities.

A new five-year Barren-ground Caribou Management Strategy will guide actions related to caribou management. ENR proposes to invest $1 million during 2011-12 to implement the strategy and build capacity for community involvement, work with all partners to develop a caribou management plan for the herds in the North Slave, increase patrols to ensure compliance with management actions and continue a public education program and materials to promote hunting excellence.

Establishing protected areas with northern tools is a priority of this government as part of the Protected Areas Strategy. During 2011-12, we propose to invest $427,000 for this key tool for environmental stewardship. The funding will be used to establish and support critical wildlife areas working groups, to

consult with Aboriginal governments and to develop and implement monitoring programs.

As Members are aware, a large part of the department’s budget is spent on prevention, detection, monitoring and suppression of wildfires in the Northwest Territories. During 2011-12, the department will table the final report on the Forest Fire Management Program review. This report and its recommendations will be reviewed with standing committee and, together, decisions will be made in how best to increase the effectiveness and efficiency of this program.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my opening comments for the department’s 2011-12 main estimates. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before committee and would be happy to address any questions Members may have. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I would ask, do you wish to bring witnesses in?

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister. Does committee agree?

Thank you. I would ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the House.

I would ask the Minister to please introduce his witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Gary Bohnet, deputy minister of Environment and Natural Resources; and Nancy Magrum, the director of finance and admin services for ENR and ITI.

Thank you, Minister. Welcome, Mr. Bohnet and Ms. Magrum. I think we’ll start with general comments. Does committee agree?

Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s nice to be able to provide a couple of comments regarding the Minister’s opening remarks, and quite namely, a few things inside his opening remarks did cause some interest and I would like to hear perhaps a little more detail.

In one of the paragraphs, the Minister mentioned about the transboundary water agreement with neighbouring jurisdictions. One of the challenges is we have become keenly aware, of course, as being downriver, we see the effects of the other jurisdictions. Although it has been some time since I sat on the committee that would oversee this department, I do recall off memory that we do have

a transboundary agreement with the Yukon, but yet it still seems to be an outstanding issue with Alberta for one reason or another. I shouldn’t coin it as an issue per se, but for one reason or another, as I understand it, Alberta still won’t come to the table. I hope the Minister can provide an elaboration as to why our neighbour to the south still resists that.

As we heard Mr. Yakeleya mention in this Member’s statement and certainly his questions yesterday about the concerns about being downriver of not just development but we are talking about major development that does play a heavy toll on our water and the water we’ll be receiving for many years to come and the impacts of that. One of the particular issues to wield against Alberta is who will be theoretically responsible for contamination.

I know that, in the past, I have come to the Minister of ENR to ask him about what we do for water monitoring specifically in that particular area as the benefactors of some of that development that is going to put challenges on our water system. As we all know, it is the lifeblood of all land, which is water and, of course, that seeds and fuels both our forests, our people, our animals and things like that. It is obviously critical that it is developed and protected, of course, in a way that makes a lot of sense. That said, I think the transboundary water agreement with Alberta is quite significant. I would not speak to assume in any lesser manner that the transboundary water agreement with British Columbia would be of less concern, but I am not familiar enough with the individual tributaries that pour out of northern B.C. into the Northwest Territories that has the same effect now. I am aware that they fuel the Liard River, of course, but does it have the same effects? I am sure to some degree it does. I can’t imagine that that area should be overlooked in one way or the other. I am just speaking more from a position of saying that my first thought and concern, of course, being the Alberta side.

Mr. Chairman, switching issues of concern to raise, and hopefully the Minister of ENR can elaborate a little further on the work developed, under our caribou. The caribou harvesting industry has been, for lack of better terms, shut down. It will continue to be shut down for some time. I am wondering as to what type of work has been done in studying the numbers. In some cases, we hear the numbers aren’t as bad as they first thought. What has the department done to further track caribou to make sure that numbers are being studied and they are being studied properly? What investment is being done to help foster that? I see that he has a Caribou Management Plan to work with partners regarding caribou management of herds in the North Slave area for patrols and whatnot, but I would like to find out more specifically as to the numbers. Really, the numbers are what are

speaking to why there is a caribou ban for non-Aboriginal people as well as the harvesters, the businesses such as the lodges. Of course, as I have spoken before, they are in a really difficult position. They know how important the caribou is. If you are a lodge, obviously, your bread and butter is dependent on that type of tourism market, which has been shut down. Of course, they are still concerned about the realities of that. They have never denied their concern, although the numbers have obviously always been disputed from their point of view. That said, I support what the government’s primary concern is, which is to make sure that the viability of the herd always exists going forward. I think it would be a mistake to not take that precautionary principle in this initiative. And yet, there are a lot of people and their livelihood as well as corresponding people who work indirectly with those industries who have taken a bit of a hit. It is very difficult for them to find new markets to expand into. That is, again, one of the issues of that area of concern, caribou.

Mr. Chairman, I think those are the only two particular areas that I kind of like the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources to expand a little further on. I look forward to hear his comments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. We are at general comments of Environment and Natural Resources. Are there any further comments? Mr. Jacobson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to thank the Minister already for the one energy coming up in Tuktoyaktuk and soon to be Ulukhaktok. The $1 million for the caribou herds, I brought that up this past week. I have concerns with people having to travel so far with the hunting zones. What we have to do is to see if we could have any extraordinary funding to provide people with gasoline, ski rods and the high-fax runners for their snowmobiles, because they are having to go farther. People are spending $350 for gasoline having to go get caribou and sometimes they are getting skunked. They are not getting any caribou. They are coming back into the community when they could use that $350 for food from the Northern Store, but at the end of the day, our hunting zones and people in my community of Tuktoyaktuk are honouring that. Some people have big families so it is making it tough on them. I am just hoping if we could with the caribou herds, maybe one or two extra flights be cancelled because we know the reborn are coming back and then we could put towards something sort of funding for the hunters, increasing the funding development for the Wildlife Act that $100,000 is good to see. The Aboriginal concentration in providing the policy advice is good to see that is happening and working together with ENR in our NWT, the Water Strategy for the communities. All in all, the energy electricity supply

are ongoing initiatives for the polar bear management and making sure that our sport hunters and that, we can help them out in regards to... for the tags and with the Minister of ITI and ENR to make sure we get our work together to get that worked out, and potential for the increase of the caribou herds is good to see again. I look forward to going page by page with the Minister on this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Again, committee we are on general comments of Environment and Natural Resources. Anybody for general comments? Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The number of issues that this department has to deal with are very important to people in the North and people in my region. We are starting to see some of the impacts of the warming up of the environment, some of the concerns that my elders in Colville Lake are raising in regards to climate change, especially with the weather. It is very rare that elders would stop you and talk to you about the weather. They don’t like to talk about it in their cultural beliefs. That’s the first time that the elders said we’ve got to talk about it. When the elders say that to a young leader or anybody, it means something. I’m very happy that the department is having some discussions. I look forward to where our elders would get together and talk about the land, the water, the animals, everything on the climate.

They also want to talk about building the relationships with our government, the First Nations people in terms of working with animals, especially the caribou. They were concerned about the scientific method of monitoring and watching over caribou and the use of collars on the caribou. Their stories, I think the department has heard from our elders about the damage that the scientific method of monitoring caribou and collaring of them. Chief Kochon pointed to the illustration of this method by stating it’s like you walking in the bush and a grizzly bear comes right at you and starts attacking you. You get all scared and you get all frightened. He was saying that was just like us putting collars on caribou, it’s like that. Now, I give a lot of weight to Chief Kochon because people in Colville Lake know about caribou. Our elders know about caribou and this is what he’s been told about the collaring of the caribou.

So I look forward to a strategy from this department in terms of a caribou strategy and putting weight from the First Nations people into that Caribou Management Strategy, respecting the First Nations, the first peoples on this land, their traditional knowledge.

I do want to thank the Minister and his department for taking the lead in traditional knowledge. You went really far and I wanted to congratulate you for

that. You’ve done a good job. It’s a good piece of work that needs to continue to be worked on.

The energy programs, I’m starting to receive some interest from the Sahtu on the energy programs. The biomass, the mass force of possibly looking at manufacturing wood pellets in my region, stoves, just helping the communities to cut down costs and to look at opportunities in business for the energy.

I do want to say that the waste management recovery has been a success by the department and I know the Minister has been dealing with an issue with me in Tulita on the recycling program. I have a concern that the Minister is well aware of in terms of this issue. Hopefully I’ll get some answers going through the detail by detail. I’m starting to notice a lot of old vehicles in waste sites in and around the communities, in the dumps. It would certainly be good if you looked at future planning to commit some dollars to having a machine come into the Sahtu and go up to the community dumps and chew up these old vehicles, package them up and send them down south somewhere. There are a lot of old vehicles in our dumps that have been there, I guess since the opening up of community dumps. So that would be a good initiative that this department can look at, waste reduction. It’s something they could think about.

I spoke a little bit about the Water Strategy, about protecting our water. The territorial government, through this department, has a Water Strategy initiative going on. I passionately believe that if we are not doing anything drastic right away, that we would live to see the prophecies of Chief Kodakin and Chief Paul Wright when they spoke in the ‘70s. I’ve spoken about this many times when I sat down with leaders in the Sahtu in Tulita where these two chiefs stood up and talked about the Mackenzie River being polluted and checking their fish nets and having no fish or fish spoiled or rotten and dead in the fish nets. I never thought that far in advance of what they were really talking about. But according to my research that put information in front of me, there is pollution coming down the Mackenzie from various sources. I pointed out yesterday one specific location, the Alberta tar sands. You can talk to people in Fort Chip, you can talk to a lot of people down that way and you can talk to the Minister and in his riding, too, about the quality of water that we have coming into our communities.

I look forward to some discussions with the Minister on resource management and the issue of devolution and the impacts on my region in the Northwest Territories when we go through this budget.

I do want to say in closing, Mr. Chair, that I continue to support the Minister in his initiatives to bring forth the Wildlife Act. It’s a good initiative. It’s been there how many years it’s been on the table. The Wildlife

Act is something that needs to be put before us, dealt with and then we can start anew.

So I wanted to say I look forward to going through the budget items in this department. It’s a very important department. I look forward to the Minister’s continued support to protect our land and our water and I looked at areas in the Sahtu that need protection. Our land and our water are our life, Mr. Chair. It’s so important. You’re talking about the life of my people. So the Minister of Environment has a very important role in this government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Committee, we’re at general comments, Environment and Natural Resources, going once, going twice. Seeing no more I will ask... Oh, sorry, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was a particular area I left off by accident and in listening to Mr. Yakeleya when he talked about the car shredding, I’ve raised in the past, as well as other Members, but I certainly have raised in the past my concern about battery recycling here in the Northwest Territories and whether that be both large and small batteries, that’s a particular initiative that I was hopeful that this time around the government would show some interest in and I’m curious as to where that has let in. As well as computer recycling. There is a concern in the community, not just in the Yellowknife Centre riding but in the community of Yellowknife, as well as when I travel in the North. People are curious as to what to do with computer technology that continues to be obsolete.

Mr. Chairman, the other issue that I would be remiss if I did not throw it out there is there continues to be a concern about tire shredding and the possibility of bringing that into some type of program that shows up every two, three, four years up and down the valley. Again, material that could be shredded down and found to have another use.

I just want to raise those three particular issues that I would consider very important. Again, computer waste, battery recycling and tire shredding. I think those would be good environmental stewardship programs that the Department of ENR would be involved in. I would certainly hope it’s their focus going forward in this budget year. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I believe that concludes the general comments. I’ll ask the Minister now for his response.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will try to be as concise as possible

With regard to the water issue raised by all three Members that offer general comments, we are hard at work on the transboundary negotiations. We are engaged with Saskatchewan, Alberta, British

Columbia and ourselves, as well as the federal government as we map out the rules of engagement and set up the negotiating processes that are going to be required. For the information of Member Hawkins, in fact the Alberta government is very willing and interested to come to the table. In fact, both the Alberta government and the Northwest Territories government have written to British Columbia, for example, to indicate that we would like to have legally binding water agreements in place before site C proceeds on the Bennett Dam.

Once again, for Member Hawkins, the headwaters of the Peace are, in fact, in British Columbia, which provides about 70 percent of the Slave and the Slave provides about 70 percent or so of water into Great Slave Lake. So it’s a very important jurisdiction for us.

We are also, in terms of water monitoring, the federal government has committed now, after some recent studies and a lot of political pressure, to setting up a committee to oversee the implementation of what we hope will be a world-class monitoring system north of McMurray. It will be able to take a comprehensive look at the impact of that development. We are encouraging the federal government to have as wide a scope as possible. As I pointed out in this House yesterday, in fact we’ve had the good fortune to have one of our very best water people on that panel, Dr. Erin Kelly.

With regard to the caribou, we are doing presentations to committee here this week on the caribou strategy, the Barren Land Caribou Strategy for the next five years, 2011 to 2015. There has been some stabilizing of numbers in some cases. Indications are, for example, when the Porcupine, after waiting about eight years or so, their numbers will, in fact, be very consistent with the last count that would appear back in the early 2000s.

With the other herds, they have stabilized. Some have shown some modest rebounding, but our information tells us they are still in need of careful management and protection. We are putting money in the budget, as we’ve indicated, to continue the work to do the proper science, to do the counting, work with the co-management groups, Aboriginal governments, with the proper mix of traditional knowledge and scientific knowledge to monitor and count the herds so we can make the proper decisions. I would point out, as well, that part of that, even though there’s concern in some quarters, it’s absolutely critical for us to be able to use collars to make use of the best satellite technology and technology to be able to monitor the herd’s whereabouts, at the same time as work very closely with the co-management board and the Aboriginal governments in communities to get on-the-ground reporting, but in terms of being able to cover large

areas of the country and find out and track the herds. It is very important technology for us.

We are committed to working forward with the wind energy in Tuk, along with all the other energy initiatives we have on the table as a government. We collectively, of course, as Mr. Yakeleya pointed out, are very aware and conscious of the weather and changes to the environment and climate that are happening. The feedback we are getting from across the North, not only feedback of an anecdotal basis but being able to see firsthand things that are happening to the environment and things that are going to require very clear attention from us and good planning.

I appreciate the interest in the Sahtu in biomass and potential business opportunities. There are going to be some workshops held up there in the Sahtu this coming year to pursue some of those discussions.

The broader challenge that’s come up here a couple of times now is the whole issue of where are we with recycling. We’ve been focussing on extending the bag levy to make sure that we can restrict even further the plastic bags. We are working and just finalizing our work on e-waste. Other things like the batteries, cars and tire shredding are on our list, but once again it’s a function of capacity and time. We will get there, but we’re focussing this coming year on hopefully coming up with a good e-waste recycling process.

Finally, as I indicated in the House, the intention is after a lot of work and time to come forward, give notice of motion on the 7

th

of March for the

introduction of the Wildlife Act, with first and second reading to be brought before this House and voted on in that week Then the bill would become the property, if it passes, of committee to do the consultation and report back within their 120 days. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Does committee agree that that concludes general comments?