Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I believe that the way this money is being allocated is not fair, and also it does not take into consideration that we have a fiduciary obligation under land claims agreements to the Gwich’in, to the Sahtu, to the Tlicho, and their land claim agreements clearly states that they shall be involved in the development of a northern accord or basically what you call devolution. It clearly tells me that we do have an obligation to those organizations, especially in regards to the land claims, regardless if it’s at the negotiating tables or even at a side table, but we do have an obligation to take into consideration of their views, regardless if it's in the written form, or else in regards to the whole overall process of inclusion and not exclusion simply because you didn’t agree to sign a bad deal. I think that that is the issue that’s still out there, and I think from the Aboriginal leadership throughout the Mackenzie Valley and all of the Dene leaders, that is the issue. The issue is that the Dene people cannot agree to the notion that someone else is going to take royalties and resources from Dene lands where they have treaty rights. They have modern day treaties, and Treaty 8, Treaty 11 rights in the Northwest Territories, but they’re being excluded from a process that has been initialled off by groups that do not have an interest in the Mackenzie Valley where those treaty lands and those treaty rights pertain to the Mackenzie Valley.

So I’d like to ask the Minister why is it that you’re identifying a majority of those resources for two groups who do not have an interest by way of lands interests, by ownership, or a land claim agreement, and yet we’re allowing groups that don’t have an interest on negotiating resource revenue sharing throughout the Mackenzie Valley, yet those people do not have an investment in those lands that you are willing to sit down and negotiate away without the Dene at the table?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This process fully respects land claim obligations, treaties. What is being talked about is public lands.

It’s clear in the AIP what our commitment is, what the commitment of the federal government is, is to respecting land claims, settlements that are already there, treaties, and should land claims be settled subsequent to the signing and the conclusion of the AIP and whatever lands are chosen, we’ll of course be fully within the provisions, but we’ll meet the provisions and obligations of the federal government. What we are talking about is the management of public lands.

Mr. Chairman, as we sat here today concerned about the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and what’s being done to us because we’re not

making decisions, this process is going to give us the authority so you don’t always have to worry about what Ottawa is going to do in the North next when it comes to those types of processes. That’s what is key here.

There’s also money in here, I’d point out, to continue to have regional leaders’ meetings. The Premier is committed to a process that he’s honouring outside of this particular negotiation process so that we can continue to gather all the leaders at the table. Thank you.

Again, Mr. Chair, I have to disagree with that notion. I believe that this is a land grab by the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Inuvialuit and the Metis for lands throughout the Northwest Territories on the backs of Dene people and Dene treaties and land claim agreements that clearly stipulate that there are settlement regions in the Northwest Territories. There are regions in the Northwest Territories which are clearly defined in regards to maps, Treaty 8, Treaty 11, which have our historical treaties. But yet, as a government, we seem to be railroading ourselves into a system of taking over a land grab at the expense of Dene people.

I totally disagree with the way this process is going and I think as a government we have an obligation to ensure that we have a workable situation that we get the parties to the table and not go full speed ahead with two groups at the table, which is a minority interest and who do not have anything at stake in regard to those lands in the Gwich’in Settlement Region, the Sahtu Settlement Region, the Tlicho region, the Dehcho or the Akaitcho. I believe that is the issue that we’re missing here, and I see that the majority of the money is going to go to two groups who have everything to gain and nothing to lose, and the Dene people have everything to lose and nothing to gain. To me that is the issue here.

I’d like to know how you can spend $2.8 million and not allow a system to resolve this outstanding roadblock that we’re at by having those dollars invested to getting the parties to the table and getting those issues on the table. If that means putting the devolution agreement aside, we’ll find in those areas that we basically can agree to disagree and work with the federal government to say, look, the agreement is not acceptable to the majority of people in the Northwest Territories, especially the Dene people up and down the valley. You basically find a way to work around that.

What I’m hearing from you is that let’s run a process where we speed up the devolution process. Let’s try to get everything done within the year and forget the people that don’t want to sign on. Whatever agreement we have, well, you can pick up the scraps or crumbs or whatever is left over. We’ll basically allow those groups who don’t

have a stake in the Mackenzie Valley to benefit from royalties and resources throughout the Mackenzie Valley, which they technically don’t have an interest or don’t have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to the distribution of those royalties through the Dene-Metis land claim.

I’d like to clarify if you would re-profile these dollars and establish a fair distribution to allow for all Aboriginal groups in the Northwest Territories to have the means and resources to be full, active members, regardless if it’s on a side table or a table, to find a workable solution to this bypass.

It’s my opinion that the majority of Northerners are represented at the table for the AIP and that we are fully committed to working with the other Aboriginal governments to hopefully get them to come on board. The time is far past where Northerners should have their fate in the hands of bureaucrats and politicians that live thousands of kilometres away and we will accept a second-class status as Canadians when 99.9 percent of this population of this country has the authority to control their destiny when it comes to land, water, and resource development. Yet we sit here mired down decade after decade where we have a government thousands of miles away running the key decision-making processes that we all complain about. That’s the issue.

This process is clear. We have an opportunity to bring everybody on board. There’s money that’s still there to carry on the side table discussions that the Member is talking about. The expectation I believe of Northerners is that it is time for us to take control of our own destiny here, to make decisions about resource development.

Two-hundred million dollars we’ve left on the table, another $60 million this year. We sit in this House day after day talking about all the resources we need to do things, to build treatment centres, to put in houses, to do all the other things. Yet we’re content to sit here as an Assembly in the North, to keep turning our backs on the opportunity to have the resources and authority that other Canadians take for granted. That’s not acceptable anymore, in my opinion. We’re coming forward with the resources to move this process forward in a very careful, measured, inclusive way.

Again, I mean, for me the way that this thing is set up is you pay the people. You can call it a signing bonus. The people that signed on get a signing bonus. The people that didn’t sign on don’t get anything. The only way that you’re going to get something is you have to sign onto a bad deal. For me that’s exactly what’s being projected here. The funds are based on both individuals who have signed on will get the funding. Those groups that haven’t signed on, sorry, you either sign on in order to get the funding. That’s bribery.

I’d like to ask the Minister why it is that this government is playing with the Aboriginal people’s lands and rights. You talk about all this money that’s going to the people of the Northwest Territories. Well, excuse me, who’s got the poorest health system? Who’s got the lack of infrastructure? It’s Aboriginal communities and not where the government is set up.

Fifty percent of the public funds in the Northwest Territories is spent on this government’s bureaucracy, which doesn’t really work its way down to Aboriginal people and Aboriginal communities. That’s why Aboriginal people don’t trust this government, because of exactly what we’re doing here is the whole reason that they can’t trust us is because we are not being fair. This is a perfect example of how this money is going to be distributed through this $2.8 million and it is not going to benefit Aboriginal people who basically are there to protect their lands and resources at all costs. If that means waiting a little longer, well, let’s wait a little longer.

This process fully respects the land claims, treaties, all the other obligations as it relates to Aboriginal rights. We are talking about public lands. We are talking about authority that now resides with the federal government to reside in the North. We have a process, a not legally binding process, to move us forward through a process of negotiation to resolve the issues that have been identified. We have funds put forward to do that. We have a request for additional funds to keep that process moving. It’s a process that folks can, if they’re not happy, they can leave. If they can negotiate and resolve the issues that are of concern to them before the final agreement, then they don’t have to take part.

What we have now is an opportunity as Northerners to finally move forward, to take our full place at the Canadian table of Confederation where we have the same rights enjoyed by all other Canadians except ourselves and Nunavut. This process is critical for us to do the things we’re talking about in terms of managing our future, the type of things that Mr. Bromley talked about, types of development, the control over the decision-making. This process allows us to move forward. It’s been carefully considered. It’s not legally binding. It fully respects all the Aboriginal rights issues.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions and some comments. I’m kind of understanding from the discussion here that there is no money here to work with bringing the Aboriginal governments that have not signed. In other words, the Dene from Gwich’in, Sahtu, Dehcho, Tlicho, and Akaitcho. No money to work

with them in this whole area of devolution and resource sharing at this point. Is that correct?

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is $173,000 earmarked for political engagement with regional leaders’ meetings. The Premier, as well, is still carrying out the regional leaders’ meetings and the regional leaders’ forums that we’ve been carrying on during the life of this Assembly, which as well will bring tables that will allow us to bring all the leaders together to continue to have these broad discussions. There’s the $173,000 there. There’s also another $123,000 for meetings in the regions, which brings that up to $300,000 to meet with individual leaders on devolution-related matters, in addition, once again, to the other broader processes that we’ve engaged in as a government that have been led by the Premier.

Okay. I was more or less thinking about the funding that would go directly to dealing with or negotiating with those Aboriginal governments that have not signed on. Not really in a regional context but in more of a government-to-government between the three governments was what I was referring to.

I have another question. Is this process of the final Devolution Agreement going to proceed, in as far as how the Government of the Northwest Territories sees it, without the Dene governments?

The intent for this process is to allow us the time to move forward to resolve the issues that are outstanding, and that when we believe there is a final deal on the table that can be supported, then we move forward with that.

To get to that point we have to have this process which was started with the initialling of the AIP back in December. I would just point out for the Member as well that the $123,000 I referenced is for meeting with individual leaders on devolution-related matters. The $173,000 talks about regional leaders’ meetings that I’ve already talked about, as well.

I guess carrying on a bit with what the line of questioning Mr. Krutko was talking about. I recognize that the territorial government and the Dene governments are seeing this process as split between the Aboriginal governments, which includes the two Aboriginal governments that have signed on, and the GNWT I think as a 75-25 split. Then the position of the GNWT is that of the 75 percent based on population, about half of that money is being spent directly to, I guess, I don’t know how else to...spent on issues that are facing the Aboriginal people.

The problem there is that the GNWT has been delivering programs and services already. Right? As indicated earlier, if you look across the board and you look at the employment rate, as one example. We have this $1.3 billion budget in the GNWT. We’re spending it, supposedly half of it, on Aboriginal people, based on population. However, the employment rates in Aboriginal communities are much less than half of the employment rates in communities that are non-Aboriginal communities. Or maybe more like the larger centres. The money seems to be going into... The GNWT doesn’t seem to be able to trigger any sort of mechanism that will let employment grow in the small Aboriginal communities. So Aboriginal communities look at that as an example, one example only, and say, well, if we hand our entire resource revenues and any devolution over to the GNWT, wouldn’t that type of thing continue? Low employment rates. Poor health standards. Poor housing. Right? So the notion that the money that’s going to the GNWT is going to go to the Aboriginal community anyway, and it is going to the Aboriginal community, but the effectiveness of it is what the issue is. It doesn’t seem to be effective. I think that’s what the issue is.

From the Dene communities, at least the communities in Tu Nedhe, there seems to be an issue of how effective this government is at delivering programs and services. There will be more responsibility now given to this government to do that delivery. It’s true. The government could say, yes, it’s somebody in Ottawa that’s making the decision now and we’re going to bring that decision to Yellowknife. I think that’s the problem. That decision should go to Simpson, and Res, and Providence, and Aklavik, and McPherson, and Good Hope, and places like that. The problem is that decision is going to be brought to Yellowknife. The people in the Dene governments are saying, I don’t think that’s a really big huge improvement from what we’ve seen. Just speaking from historical data only, not trying to predict the future of what it’s going to be like, but just based on historical information that the GNWT doesn’t have a real good track record in those key areas of programs and services. I think that’s what the issue is. Bringing people on board is a good idea, but I think you have to show and I think this government has to show today that they’re going to seriously and actively work in these areas that need so much work. I think that’s what the issue is.

I’d like to ask the Minister what’s going to happen, what’s going to change when they take control. What’s going to change that’s going to make things better for the Aboriginal people? Thank you.

Firstly, I’d point out to the Member for Tu Nedhe it’s not they, it’s us that sit around this table. Every Member in this House, including the Member for Tu Nedhe and myself as the Member for Thebacha, that we are

representing the people of the Northwest Territories at this public government table. The Member is suggesting that we have decades of problems that could be tied to the fact that we don’t control a lot of our own decisions. We didn’t take over health, forestry and those types of things until the mid-‘80s, but that it may be better to stick with the devil we know than to be able to say that we’re finally ready to stand up as Northerners to take on responsibility.

I would suggest to all the Members here and the people of the Northwest Territories, that we can’t do things any worse, and if we make mistakes, they’ll be our mistakes that we can fix, that we control. We will control the decisions. We will not be sitting here with bated breath waiting to find out what they’re going to regulatory reform and what they’re going to all the land claim agreements with the boards that were set up and not have any say.

We have one of the most decentralized governments in the country and if that design is not appropriate, then we can change it. If we want to have discussions about how do we handle water, what type of resource development, what do we mean by sustainability, we have those discussions right now but we don’t control the decision. We can talk about it until we’re blue in the face and come up with all sorts of principles and put those on a shelf and hold them up, but the final decision is not ours. That’s the benefit to us.

We cannot turn our back any further, I believe, having sat in this House for 16 years and listened to the constant concerns and need for more money on the hundreds of millions of dollars that are currently left on the table that are not retroactive. Just think what we could have done with a quarter of a billion dollars to add to our operations and maintenance, or to our capital funds. That money will never be spent. Yet we will all stand up in the most passionate way and make the case for the housing needs in our communities, for the roads, for the health services, for the addictions services. Yet at the same time we’re prepared to say that $200 million can just stay on the table. We won’t take it but we’ll sit here and complain about the doggone government not giving us enough money. At what point do we say let’s seize our own future and make those decisions? Let’s realize those resources and set up the structures of governance that every other province can do but we can’t. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I have nobody else on my list. Any questions on page 4? We’re on page 4, Executive, operations expenditures, executive operations, not previously authorized. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the devolution process, what happens if an Aboriginal group does not want the devolution negotiations to apply to their settlement regions? In regard to the Gwich’in, or the Sahtu, or the Tlicho,

make the unilateral decision at an assembly this summer saying that devolution negotiations will not apply to their settlement regions and you only negotiate the devolution agreements in those areas that the individuals that signed on have to negotiate for those resources in those settlement regions, the Inuvialuit or wherever the Metis settlement region is. I’d like to know what is this government going to do with that scenario.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Again, Mr. Chair, there are land claims agreements in the Northwest Territories. There are three claimant groups that basically have not signed on -- the Gwich’in, the Sahtu, and the Tlicho -- which makes up almost two-thirds of the settlement of the Northwest Territories. I’d like to know, as a government, and I have a letter from one of the former federal Ministers basically making it clear that he would not negotiate provincial-like powers to the Government of the Northwest Territories if there are large parts of the territory who do not want to be included in this process, regardless of who they are, and that, again, can’t happen.

I’d like to know exactly what is this government going to do. Will you consider negotiating with those groups that have signed on and not with those… If you’re not going to have those groups that have not signed on have that opportunity to partake in this process, that you’d exclude those areas from this process and you only negotiate with the Inuvialuit and the Metis.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Just a reminder that we’re on Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditure), No. 1, and we’re on the Executive with respect to this $2.831 million, so if we can try and keep focused on the budget that we’re discussing here, that would be great. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’ve signed an agreement with Canada to start a process, a non-legally binding process that will allow us to negotiate the elements that were assigned in the AIP, and resolve those issues to come to a final agreement for all Northerners. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, again, we’re spending $2.8 million for a negotiating process that’s not fair,

it’s not inclusive, but more importantly, it will have a long-term political effect on people in the Northwest Territories and especially those areas, those groups that have not signed on. I’d like to know again from this government exactly what are we going to do to ensure that those groups have land claims or land claim settlement areas be excluded from this process.

This is a fair process. This is inclusive. It’s going to finally give us as Northerners the same rights now shared by about 99.5 percent of the Canadian population. We’re no longer going to be second class where we have to rely on a distant government to make key critical decisions about our life, our water, the land, and the resource development and how we want to move forward as a territory. To me, that is a fundamental improvement that is long overdue.

There’s money in the budget to continue to engage with those signatories that have not yet come to the table of the Aboriginal governments, and the funds are there, the commitment is there, the process is underway, and I’m confident that as we move down this negotiation path and people see what great value this is going to be to us, that by the time we come to the final agreement, that we will have a significant number of Aboriginal governments sign on. Thank you.