This is page numbers 6613 - 6650 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand the reason for this bill and for the most part I reluctantly agree with forgiving some of these dollars.

There’s one area that I have a big problem with and that is there’s three debts in here that arose out of fraudulent activities against the GNWT. Specifically, people stole from the GNWT and they were given an order by the courts to pay back the GNWT a certain amount of money. Now, for some reason, we have failed to collect that money and the time is such that now they’re statute barred, which means it’s kind of impossible to collect the money. As a result we’re out about $50,000 that we could have collected from people who stole from us and it kind of rots my socks that we’re going to forgive these dollars.

Unfortunately, they are statute barred, which means we can’t do anything. But I think it’s important that we learn from this particular case. People do, from time to time, steal from the Government of the Northwest Territories and when they do steal from the Government of the Northwest Territories, there’s no reason that we should ever, especially when an order from the court has been given, ever let them get away with not paying back what they owe. If we don’t have policies and procedures to track these individuals so that we make sure that we’re on top of them from the minute an order is given until all the monies are collected, we should put those in place to make sure that when people do steal from us and are ordered to pay us back, that we’re on top of it and we collect the money.

So to the Minister today, I would like to seek some commitment from the Minister that some protocols or rules will be put in place to ensure that we never see a situation where we’re writing off debt or forgiving debt for individuals who have stolen from us. So to the Minister, will the Minister commit to putting in some policies, procedures to make sure that we track the dollars from individuals who have stole from us? In this case, three people are getting away with over $50,000 in what they owe us and, quite frankly, it’s unacceptable. We need to make sure it never happens again. Will the Minister commit to that?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d just like to offer up the specific commitment, proceeded by just a couple of points.

Court orders for restitution become statute barred in the Limitations of Action Act after 10 years, not six

years, as with other debts. The courts will not impose additional conditions on the debtors, such as keeping the GNWT informed of their employment status, whereabouts or marital status. It is the responsibility of the party whom the judgment is in favour of to be diligent in their collection efforts, because the courts will not take further action.

Additional action can be taken at the time of an application for judgment that would require the debtor to disclose, under oath, assets and particulars of employment. If the GNWT feels there are assets available to satisfy a debt, this information could then be used for additional collection action, such as writs against property or garnishees against wages.

It is possible to apply to the courts to renew an order prior to reaching the 10-year limitation. After reviewing these facts, the office of the comptroller general will implement processes pertaining to debts that arise from fraudulent activities to ensure departments that have secured judgments for restitution renew them with the courts if the judgment has not been satisfied within 10 years.

Procedures will also be established to ensure more aggressive action is taken at the outset of the application of a restitution order to take all possible steps to secure all possible assets of the debtor to settle the amounts outstanding.

Finally, I would just make the observation that as was pointed out by Ms. Lavoie, the assistant comptroller general, in her 10 or 12 years in her position she had never seen this type of restitution write-off before. So it’s brought to light a gap and we believe that this commitment will help close that gap and I thank the committee for raising the issue with us. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d like to thank the Minister and the comptroller’s office for making that commitment to making sure that people who steal from us don’t get to keep the money they stole. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you. Committee, general comments? Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a similar issue I had as well in the committee, and it’s really about involvement from the Department of Finance side in the courts, whether it’s using our Justice people in particular to make a position known to the courts to ensure that the GNWT’s interest is exercised and acknowledged before the 10 years lapse through statute barred.

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the Minister of Finance, obviously through the comptroller general

for providing us this briefing note on debts that arise as a result of court ordered restitution. In short, the Minister read his briefing note that explained the process that they’ll start, and this was truly identified by committee at large to try to figure out ways to ensure that people who commit fraud aren’t, for the lack of a better term, rewarded by that process.

I want to acknowledge the work provided by the comptroller general who has found a way to help address this particular problem. As I explained to committee, my particular position is if we can articulate our voice early, if the person does fail to comply within a reasonable amount of time, hopefully the Department of Justice can make application to the court to either, as stated by the Minister, continue another order going forward or, of course, then proceed for failure of following through on a court order and then let the courts decide what’s appropriate at that time.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. General comments. Hearing no more general comments, we’ll go to clause by clause. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Before we start that, we’ll defer that until we have looked at the schedule to the bill. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Going to pages 3 through 5, schedule of debts forgiven, total $1,375,491.32.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Returning to clause by clause, page 1 of Bill 6, clause 1.

---Clauses 1 and 2 inclusive approved

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Bill 6 as a whole.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Does committee agree that Bill 6, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2010-2011, is now ready for third reading?

---Bill 6 as a whole approved for third reading

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

I’d ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witness from the Chamber. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress.

---Carried

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

I will now rise and report progress.

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Can I have the report from the Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Bromley.

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bills 3, 4, 5 and 6, and would like to report progress. Bills 3, 4, 5 and 6 are ready for third reading. I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of the Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. A motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder? The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

---Carried

Before we go onto the next item on the Order Paper, colleagues, earlier today in the House the Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley, tabled a DVD video disk entitled Hand to Toe – And Explanation of the Art of Giving. Article 43 of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly permit a Member to table any document which is required to be tabled in the House by any act or order of the Assembly or which may be in the public interest. Upon initial review of the item tabled earlier today, I am not satisfied that Mr. Bromley’s item meets the test laid out in Article 43 of the Rules as it is clearly not a document.

As well, the Chair has some concerns about the reproduction of this item in the absence of the expressed written consent of the DVD’s producer.

As a result of these concerns, I am ruling Tabled Document 26-16(6) out of order. Thank you, colleagues.

Item 22, third reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affair, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Local Authorities Elections Act
Third Reading of Bills

May 15th, 2011

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Deh Cho, that Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Local Authorities Elections Act, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Local Authorities Elections Act
Third Reading of Bills

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Bill 8 has had third reading.

---Carried

The honourable Minister of Finance.