This is page numbers 159 - 190 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 1st Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Anything further, Mr. Yakeleya?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Not at this time, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. General comments. Next I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll speak briefly to a number of issues. The first one I want to mention is, as the Minister well knows, I don’t see the Detah road on here and my constituents have a high degree of interest in doing something on that front. They’re in mid-project right now doing some great work, and it has provided real benefits to the community with employment, and keeping people at home and developing the Deton’Cho Corporation and their capacity. So there’s quite a number of features. It’s a partnership with the Mine Training Society and so on. I know the Minister is supportive of the project, so I will be looking for opportunities to advance this as it has been in the past with opportunistic funding.

Also, of course, the Giant bypass road. I’m curious; I don’t see that in the capital plan here. I understand that’s coming from a separate fund. I’d appreciate information from the Minister on how the committee is to provide the oversight and accountability for that project through the oversight of Regular Members if it’s not really in the books. I’d appreciate learning some more on the process of that.

Certainly on the Deh Cho Bridge the Minister was thorough in outlining some of the risks identified. I know that he again is very aware that these risks are real. Many of them have been realized along the road. So far the path has been rocky. There’s no question that other risks will be realized. I’m asking that the Minister stay very much on top of that and keep us informed, as I believe he has indicated he will be doing.

Climate change has been mentioned. I’m wondering what systematic protocols are in place for us to capture the direct and indirect impacts of climate change on our infrastructure so that we can be knowledgeable about what we’re doing. I know we’ve been contemplating research. Maybe we’ve been doing a little bit of research for years, passing the money on from year to year, but there’s a lot of things happening with a suite of infrastructure, many of them accumulating to highways and airports, so I’d want to know what actual protocols are in place for capturing those, so that we can be learning as we go.

The Tuk highway, I don’t think we want to move forward unless we have a cost-benefit analysis of this project that indicates it’s well worthwhile. So, I’d like the Minister to assure us that that work is being done or will be done, before we start throwing great amounts of money at the project. Also, a greenhouse gas emissions mitigation plan be developed for the project so that there is a net zero increase in emissions at a time when we are, of course, trying to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the Northwest Territories.

The Highway No. 7, I know in the absence of my colleague, Mr. Menicoche, not being here, we heard last week plus 14 degree temperatures there. We can be guaranteed that there will be kerfuffles for that highway. It’s a challenging highway, I understand, and it needs some sort of comprehensive response. Undoubtedly, it will be very expensive, but I just want to put a plug in to make sure that at least some planning and ongoing diligence is put into how we’re going to resolve that situation in the long term.

Finally, again keeping my remarks brief, Highway No. 4, as the department has documented, is the worst highway in the Northwest Territories and it’s also got very high volumes, so I’m very supportive in seeing that project go forward and hopefully we’ll achieve completion on that soon. I’m always, of

course, interested in opportunities for helping on our efficiency in delivering projects like the Detah road completion and the Giant Mine bypass as well, which would be associated with that project.

Remarks from the Minister would be appreciated on those topics. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments. Obviously the Detah access road is an important item for the Member and we have provided, I believe, a $6 million program there. There are more needs for that road. We’ve got about I believe it’s between $500,000 and $700,000, and a little bit of carry-over for about a half-kilometre of work that’s left on that road. But going forward, I think, again, funding and finding sources of funding to carry out the remaining portions of work on the Detah access road is going to be something that’s important and we will need to find other opportunities to get more funding to address the concerns on that road.

The Member talked about the Highway No. 4 realignment. Certainly that’s a project that has been around for a little while. It’s a $17 million project. The money is coming from the Giant Mine Remediation Fund that the Government of the Northwest Territories had a $23 million liability there. We’re taking $17 million from that. The oversight will be provided by both AANDC and the Government of the Northwest Territories. Members can expect, like with other projects, to be updated on the progress of that project as it moves forward. There’s a very ambitious timeline on the realignment. We’re looking at proceeding to work here in the new year and have that realignment completed by the fall of 2012, with a final surfacing added in 2013, once the road settles. The Member can look forward to that project this coming year.

The Member also talked about risks associated with the Deh Cho Bridge Project. Again, from an oversight perspective, as the Minister of Transportation I take very seriously the project and the oversight of that project now rests with me. I’m certainly keeping a watchful eye on the progress of the Deh Cho Bridge. My goal is to keep Members adequately informed at every step. Tomorrow we’re going forward with a technical briefing to the media on the project and earlier today I sent out an e-mail to all Members advising them of that taking place, and also providing them with the information so that Members get the information first. I think that’s important that Members are kept apprised of what’s happening with that project. As we move forward, we’re moving towards the completion of the Deh Cho Bridge in the fall of next year, so we’re going to try to manage it the best that we can and to the best of our ability and will be keeping Members informed.

The Member also talked about climate change and its impact on our transportation infrastructure here in the Northwest Territories. Currently we’ve got I believe it’s $1.85 million through the Building Canada Plan to see how we can effectively deal with the impact that climate change is having on the infrastructure here in the Northwest Territories. We’re looking to projects and research that are going to help us as we move forward to better address the issues of climate change.

The Member also asked about a cost-benefit analysis on the Tuktoyaktuk to Inuvik highway. Currently there’s an economic analysis that has been conducted on that stretch of highway and that can be found on the Department of Transportation’s website for any Members that are interested in seeing it and the work that was done there. We are going to continue to pursue that project and try to move it forward. We do have the $150 million commitment from the federal government for the Tuk-Inuvik highway and there are a number of compelling reasons why the project should be advanced.

I believe we are working, as well, on the greenhouse gas and emissions. I thank the Member for raising that concern with us again today, and look forward to getting back to committee and perhaps getting some further insight from the Member on plans as we move them forward. Any help the Member can provide or input the Member can provide to us as we move those plans forward would be greatly appreciated, Madam Chair.

Finally, I believe Highway No. 7, and I wanted to just touch on this, obviously that is in need of a tremendous amount of funding. We’re looking at, just to keep things moving along, a $3 million a year program for 10 years, so $30 million. Again, our funding is just not conducive to allowing us to do everything we need to do or want to do, so we are going to have to move forward trying to find a way and a means to address the concerns on Highway No. 7. We do have a little bit of a carry-over from last year for Highway No. 7. It’s about $1.6 million. We’re hoping that that’s going to be just enough if there are some issues to address in the spring. But we need a long-term solution to Highway No. 7 and a lot of money to do it. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I had asked specifically what systematic protocols are in place to capture the impacts of climate change on our infrastructure so that we can build our knowledge on that. I understand that we do have research dollars that we haven’t spent for many years that we keep forwarding on to future years, and I’m looking forward to some research eventually being done. I appreciate that information, but right now I’m asking what systematic protocols do we have? We have a lot of workers out there. We have a lot of

assessments of our infrastructure, I am sure, that we need to do in order to do maintenance and so on. I would really like a response on that one. If we don’t have one, what can we do to get one in place?

On the greenhouse gas emissions mitigation for the Tuk highway, that is the responsibility of this Minister. I would be glad to help him. I am looking forward to his plan on that. When can we expect the plan on that on which I can comment and help him out? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Neudorf.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Russ Neudorf

Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of climate change, the departments, of course, have been dealing with a changing climate for the last 20 years or so. We have modified, adapted our activities in quite a number of different areas, both on the maintenance side of things where we are using more sand, salt to deal with more freezing, thawing conditions. We have adjusted our maintenance efforts, the work schedule of our equipment operators to cut and have more hours covered in a week. So quite a few changes on that side as the challenges have arisen and we have seen the need and we have brought those needs forward to the government. We have been able to adapt to the climate on an O and M perspective.

On the infrastructure side of things, there has been a lot of research around permafrost, and changes in permafrost and best practices in permafrost. DOT has participated in those and we do take all that work and use it to help us manage our infrastructure, and as we are doing design, work related to upgrading an infrastructure, then we may consider those protocols and the issues that are brought forward there.

In terms of specific work underway right now, we recently completed a vulnerability assessment on Highway No. 3 that follow the protocol of the Engineering Association of Canada, and to do that work we, of course, are doing lots of work around Inuvik-Tuk road, and considering climate change and collecting baseline information around that at the present time to ensure that those impacts are fully considered as we design that road and move forward with construction. We did have consultants hired right now to prepare a Climate Change Adaptation Plan for the department. The one area that we do need to do a little bit more risk assessment on is in the marine infrastructure, so that is a specific part of that and then we will be doing some more consultations within the department and with some of our other stakeholders and work on preparing the full departmental Climate Change Adaptation Plan. That will bring together all of the previous research and efforts that the department has done directly

itself, and then it has been involved with at the national level a number of other work.

The one additional area that we do hope to get to in the next year or two is we still implement the BCP R and D funding to develop work on a runway vulnerability protocol as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Neudorf. Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to answer the Member’s last concern that was with the Tuk-Inuvik highway and how we might mitigate the greenhouse gas emissions on that project, that is going to be, I believe, a difficult task. I think we are going to have to, and it is going to be intensive over a short period of time where the construction of that highway would take place. There is going to be a lot of equipment used. Personally I want to ensure that the benefits accrue to local contractors and businesses in the Northwest Territories who may not have the latest emission standards or equipment that might meet what some southern companies might have. I think we have to balance everything off when looking at that to ensure that the work can go to northern companies so that capacity is built here in the Northwest Territories. I would be interested in, again, hearing ways in which the Member and other Members of this House feel that we might be able to mitigate greenhouse gas on a project like the Tuk-Inuvik highway. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate the comments from the Minister and his deputy minister here. I guess I would like to take the Minister up on that offer and ask if he will commit to bringing this subject to committee with their best efforts. I will urge committee to do our best efforts to come up with ways. There are a number of ways that come to mind immediately. Ultimately, of course, we could purchase offsets so that there is no net increase, but I think we could do a little better.

The Minister mentioned balancing and so on. That is what I am talking about here. If we just allow this to continue to increase, I am sure, and the Minister knows what the future will hold for our people. I appreciate his willingness to pursue this and I look forward to that exercise. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Madam Chair, I thank the Member for that. Certainly options and different ideas all come with a price tag. Like I said earlier, we are going to be really challenged fiscally to deliver on the projects that we have in front of us. We are going to be looking for money anywhere we can find it. Again, I think, when we are discussing mitigating opportunities on greenhouse gas on a project like the Tuk-Inuvik highway, we need to

ensure that we are taking everything into consideration. I think that can happen. Again, I thank the Member for that. I look forward to further discussions on this as we move forward. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. General comments. Department of Transportation. Detail. Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chair. I asked a question earlier, the access road to Willow River. I see it in the 20-year plan that is actually within the first five years. I would just like to get reassurance from if the Minister that it will be in the plans for the next four years. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Madam Chair, again, I thank the Member for raising the concern on the road to Willow River and the gravel source outside of Aklavik. It is in the 20-year needs assessment but I believe there is always, as we move forward – we talked about this before – there is going to be a number of competing projects for those capital dollars.

Obviously this is an issue that is important to the Member, so getting the support of other Members is helpful, and continue to talk about the project and its importance to the people of Aklavik and the Mackenzie Delta is something I look forward to the Member doing.

It wasn’t that long ago where I was speaking of the Kam Lake bypass road here in Yellowknife. As a Regular Member, I probably stood up in this House about seven or eight times, at least, talking about the advantages of having that bypass road put into the city of Yellowknife from the highway into Kam Lake Industrial Park. Again, I would encourage the Member to continue to talk about the project and its importance. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Any further general comments on the Department of Transportation capital budget? Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to ask the Minister on infrastructure and the federal government’s stimulus plan and if the Minister has any type of indication as to any type of further costs, potential federal funding to improve our highways, improve the bridges and the airports, if there’s any type of discussion to improve our infrastructure other than we know the Mackenzie Valley Highway PDRs are completed, or some of them are completed, and if there’s any type of requirements that they’re going to put on our infrastructure to meet or match the federal government’s requirements that may not be known right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the Member for the question. The issue of infrastructure is an important one as we move along here. We’ve all seen the importance that the federal stimulus money, the Building Canada Plan, has brought to the Northwest Territories. We’ve had an unprecedented amount of capital spending over the past four or five years.

Currently there’s a consultation going on from the federal government to governments across the country on infrastructure planning. This type of consultation should take about a year. After this is concluded, I think you’ll see the federal government make a decision on what should happen next. So talking to our federal Ministers and counterparts in the area of infrastructure I think is going to be really important in the next year to ensure that projects here in the Northwest Territories are given a good billing in Ottawa with the federal government. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Can the Minister maybe advise me within the next four years if he has any type of indication that we could be receiving or we are eligible for any type of infrastructure funding other than advising me that there are some discussions going on with the provincial Transportation Ministers and the federal government? If we can receive some infrastructure dollars for our winter roads.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Again, as we continue to move forward, obviously discussions with the federal government are of great importance to us. We thank them for the commitment, the $150 million commitment to the Tuk-Inuvik Highway Project, but we certainly have to come up with what’s next, find a way forward.

We’ve got the next steps with the Mackenzie Valley Highway and I think that’s a project where there’s a great deal of interest in a project like that in Ottawa with the federal government for building the North, this territory, sovereignty and development. There’s a number of issues there that the federal government looks at when looking at potential investment in the area of infrastructure, and certainly the Mackenzie Valley Highway is one of those projects that I think the feds would look favourably on down the road. But we have to continue that discussion. We have to keep knocking on doors. We have to keep promoting the project and the opportunities that are here in the Northwest Territories, and we really will need to work with our counterparts in Ottawa to ensure that the infrastructure dollars that we need here to grow our territory are available to us. So we continue to work towards that and it will be a goal of mine, as the Minister of Transportation, to try to find every available federal dollar that we can for

transportation infrastructure here and other infrastructure in the territory. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Any further general comments? Detail. Thank you. Page 9-4, Transportation, activity summary, airports, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $1.15 million. Agreed?