Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for the record, I believe the committee does have an open mind but we do want to see action. A lot of it is back-and-forth debate on points. It’s not really adding much value and it’s not really helping the people of the Northwest Territories, from my point of view and from her point of view. No question.

May I remind Member’s this is not time for...

---Interjection

The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my Member’s statement on mental health issues and pose questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services.

My first question deals with patients being released from the Stanton Territorial Hospital’s mental health unit. Mental health unit staff sometimes make it a condition of release that the released patient stay at the Centre for Northern Families, presuming that there are skills and capacity at the CNF to meet the special needs of mental health outpatients. Yet the Centre for Northern Families has only hard-won experience with these people and some space, whereas trained staff, and especially funding, are needed to provide full care.

Can the Minister tell me why our health facilities would place such a condition of release, knowing full well the required capacity doesn’t exist?

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not familiar with the details of what the Member is suggesting. I would have to assume that was something that a physician might have done, but I will have to get more information from the Member and get back to him.

I appreciate that and I look forward to that commitment. I’d like now to consider the recent instances of outpatients who have gone missing, resulting in the major searches of the community that we have all sadly heard so much about. I realize the judgments for release are difficult and complicated and there can be no certainty in every case, but since we’ve seen two cases in less than five months of massive community searches -- one still underway -- has there been an examination of the wisdom of the practices for release currently being used? Mahsi.

I believe the health authority and the hospital and the unit there do review incidents as the ones that the Member is referring to and I will undertake to get the relevant information for the Member.

I appreciate the Minister’s commitment there. Obviously this is not something you want to see continue.

Mr. Speaker, this leads us to the issue of outpatient readmission, recognizing again the complexity. I know patients who are released, only to immediately go to a return of their drug and alcohol abuse, which are core elements of their mental health illness. Then when requests are made for readmission it’s refused, because substance abuse is deemed to be a behavioural problem requiring referral of the patient to alcohol and drug counselling and treatment. If patients were sufficiently ill in the first place to have been admitted for care, their relapse through drug and alcohol abuse is evidence of continuing serious mental health issues. Could the Minister provide a response either now or again later if an investigation is needed on the logic of this approach?

I do appreciate the Member’s questions and I do appreciate that these are of concern to us. I am a little concerned that what we are talking about here may go into clinical decisions that our health care professionals make by whatever knowledge they have or the legislation or policy, so this is a very complex issue. I think the better thing for me to do is just to undertake to get the information for the Members and provide them with the information.

I do want to say that they are governed by legislation, so we need to get to those. I do share the Member’s concerns about improving what we are doing. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. A short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

In summary to those questions, the bottom line here is that I, and certainly the public, want to be assured that there is a safety net in practice, and as we know from the child and family services review, there’s quite a difference between policy and implementation or practice.

My last question, Mr. Speaker, very briefly, back to the Centre for Northern Families, which, equipped or not, is delivering mental health services. It is now almost a year since the Minister promised to complete the audit of the Centre for Northern Families, take action on a secondment and devise a financial recovery plan for this important institution. Can the Minister tell me the status of those efforts?

The audit was conducted by Education, Culture and Employment. I have been working with the Minister on that. I do not have the recent updated information on it. I’m sorry. I will undertake to get back to him on it. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve got questions for the Minister of Justice again today following up on some of my questions and my statement from yesterday. Again, getting back to sentences that are handed out to individuals who have repeatedly committed offences of a violent nature, you know, yesterday the Minister was talking about the programs and services that are available to people who are incarcerated in our corrections system. Mr. Speaker, I’d like the Minister, perhaps he can explain to me and to this House and to the public in the Northwest Territories how the system that we have in place could fail this individual 19 times. Nineteen, Mr. Speaker. How is that explainable to the public in the Northwest Territories that the system has failed this individual and others, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Once inmates are in the institution there are various programs that are offered to them, whether it be treatment healing programs, substance abuse, sexual offender relapse, family violence, men who abuse program. There are all these different programs. There is also specific to healing. Those are the areas that the rehabilitation of those inmates that our staff is focused on. But there are certain circumstances where individuals

who if they are very high risk then take different programs as well.

Mr. Speaker, we can’t control those individuals that are outside the institution. They have their own life once they leave the facility. But when they are in a facility, the department, the corrections staff, the counsellors are working closely with them until they leave the facility so they can be reintegrated back into the community. There is also an on-the-land program that we initiated a couple years back that has been very successful. Those are just some of the areas that we continue to focus on, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

Mr. Speaker, this individual that has 19 prior offences of a violent nature, in fact, killed somebody, got five years. Mr. Speaker, according to some folks that work with sentencing, this individual could be walking the streets of the Northwest Territories in 22 months’ time. Mr. Speaker, 19 times the system has failed him. I’d like to again ask the Minister of Justice what safeguards are in place or what are we going to do differently with this individual that is going to ensure public safety when he gets released, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, these individuals that the Member is referring to, they are in a system where they may be released earlier than expected. It is at the discretion of the judge. They make the final decision.

The programs are in place within corrections and outside of corrections. It’s interdepartmental. It’s not just our Justice department. We work with the RCMP ‘G’ Division with respect to awareness programs, information being sent out that these individuals are out there. They do what they can. We work closely with the RCMP ‘G’ Division, the Justice department, and we will continue to do so. We work closely with the Department of Health and Social Services as well. Mahsi.

Mr. Speaker, I hate to think that the next victim is part of the justice system here in the Northwest Territories and part of an individual’s rehabilitation plan. That’s hard to imagine, Mr. Speaker; the fact that someone can reoffend 19 times of a violent nature, in this case, and there are other instances.

I spoke of an individual that has 18 prior convictions. He got five months for assaulting his partner. This speaks to some serious flaws in the way that we are rehabilitating offenders of violent crime here in the Northwest Territories.

Again, I’d like to ask the Minister -- I asked him yesterday -- can we have some type of wholesale review of the services and programs that we provide to inmates that are incarcerated in our correctional system for violent crimes? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we have. Within our programming there’s been a review undertaken to have an overall look at the whole programming that we offer at corrections. There have been some changes reflected on that, Mr. Speaker. We’ve heard from inmates, from the people in the public to say these are particular programs that should be offered, whether it be the on-the-land program, that we’ve heard over and over. Definitely, this is an area that we continue to monitor, Mr. Speaker. If there are going to be changes required, then we’ll make those changes. But again, it is federal legislation, federal law that we have to follow and the decisions lie with the judge, the final decision, Mr. Speaker. It is at their discretion. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If individuals are recommitting offences 15, 16, 18, 19 times, Mr. Speaker, doesn’t the Minister want to state to this House and state to the public that, yes, we have a problem with the way we are rehabilitating individuals that are incarcerated in our corrections system, Mr. Speaker? That’s obvious. I’d like to again ask the Minister to commit to a review of services and programs provided to individuals who are incarcerated in the Northwest Territories today for violent crimes. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, again, these are the programs that we offer. We made some changes and we will make some changes again if the need arises, dealing with reintegration back to the community or rehabilitation. This is the main focus that we have in the system. We’re also, within the community of justice and also the RCMP ‘G’ Division, the focus is on preventative measures as well. Those are the areas that we continue to work with within our department and other partners that are involved. Yes, those are the areas that we need to closer monitor, Mr. Speaker, and change is always in the system with the programming. Mahsi.