Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to ask, first of all, with respect to the 6,000 square metre general purpose office building, what the heating options are for the building. I know there is interest in the community energy system for which there still is some uncertainty. I understand there are options for sharing heat with other government buildings. Can I just get a summary on where we are at with those options? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We are intending to use the facilities, the new building, to help provide heat or to provide heat to the two existing buildings. It is the Stuart Hodgson Building and the Laing Building. We will save 785 tonnes of greenhouse gases annually by

the option that we have selected, biomass for the new building.

The Member has mentioned the district heating and any options that we have there. I said it before, I will say it again, we haven’t finalized the plans. We still have a small window where we can switch to, in construction, a district heating. If it was to come forward to us, we have asked the city to provide us with a business plan showing us the economics of this. It is something we are interested in. Unfortunately, we have awarded a contract on this building. We do have to pursue that and continue to move forward. That window is going to close. Does it mean we can’t go back later? Of course it doesn’t, but we would really love to have that information before we move forward, because it would be economies of scale and might be able to save money on construction and design, but that window is closing rapidly.

Thanks for the Minister’s comments there. I have a couple of questions. Does the city know the timing within which they need to respond to the government for the potential to pursue things? What sort of deadline was given to them? The other two buildings are Stuart Hodgson and the Laing. Would they also be part of Yellowknife community energy system according to the folks of the city if they came back with a positive response to government questions?

Yes, they have been notified of our window, and we have encouraged them to please get us a business plan so we can see the economies of what they are proposing. We have no idea when they are going to get that to us, but we do have limited time before we actually have to finalize the heating system.

The other question with respect to the other two buildings, the answer is yes. If the district system heating comes forward and we accepted and we become a partner, we would be able to tie in all of those buildings.

Madam Chair, thanks again to the Minister. The other part of that question was: What date has been given to the city for the deadline for the GNWT to know and make their decision?

We indicated that we need to know as soon as possible, because as we move forward with construction, we are pouring the foundation, we are doing that work. We are getting ready to move into other parts of the construction. Once we finalize the look of the boiler room or the heating room, the utility room, we run out of options. We have to be ready to put in our biomass system or another system. A month or two.

What other energy efficiency measures are being taken with this building? I understand the structure of it; it is a nice block

which is a nice sort of energy efficient start, but we know that our electricity rates are soaring, and I am just wondering if there are efficiencies being gained in that area as well as effective use of the heating that we do put into the building. Thank you.

Madam Chair, we have gone with a very efficient layout. The building is going to be energy efficient with an energy efficient envelope. The envelope design is going to exceed by at least 10 percent of the required energy consumption level of the National Energy Code for building as required by the Good Building Practice for Northern Facilities Guidelines. Energy-efficient fixtures and equipment will be incorporated. Daylight harvesting technologies will be incorporated. Energy-efficient fluorescent and/or LED lighting will be included. As I indicated before, we hope to save 785 tonnes of greenhouse gases annually. There will be heat recovery on the ventilation system. Domestic water will be reduced by 30 percent through efficiencies. Those types of things are things we are looking to do. Recycled carpeting, interior partitions manufactured from recycled materials, those types of activities, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, those all sound great. It is good to hear we are putting some intention to that sort of detail.

The other part, I know the Minister is a big supporter of the arts. I am sure he recognizes the opportunity here to support the arts community. Especially in light of the lack of an arts facility other than NACC community structure, what is the Minister putting in place for the display of art from Yellowknife and the NWT? Is there a policy in place to assure 1 percent of the wall space or something is available for display of arts products, activities? Thank you.

Madam Chair, the Member asked a similar question in I think it was business main estimates last year and I committed to having the department go and do an analysis of the space available where we could actually hang pictures or display art, with parameters being it has to be the public area in the buildings rather than, say, office areas or areas that aren’t open to the public.

The department is doing that analysis. We have some early numbers. There is not as much public space as you might imagine, so we are just trying to explore our definition of what is public space.

Once we have that analysis done and we have a sense of the space, we were going to approach some of the different art organizations in the Northwest Territories to have some discussions on what they are thinking. What do they want to have displayed? Where do they want to have it displayed? Who would be responsible for hanging

it? What are the insurance requirements in case things get damaged?

Before we go to them, we want to have a sense of how much space we’re talking about. We don’t want to give anybody false hope that there’s a lot of space. Frankly, right now we still don’t have our heads completely around what space would be considered public on our walls in places that we rent and/or own. So we are working on it. It’s going forward.

Thanks again to the Minister. I’m very happy to hear that that analysis is being done. I also asked and pointed out where there were some possible federal resources for putting, say, 1 percent of the space available on the ground floor level so that the public and visiting public can experience northern art. That did not include the sale of art but it did include the performance, some small performance venues and this sort of thing. Has the Minister pursued those opportunities?

We’re not convinced that there’s 1 percent. There might be more, there might be less. We need to really assess the space, the public space.

As far as the performing arts, I don’t recall that and I haven’t directed the department to look at the performing arts side of things. I apologize for that. I would say that it would fall under the same category of art.

Once we talk to the arts associations in the Northwest Territories, I think we’ll get some good input from them, but I’m not prepared to go to them until we have some sense of how much space is available.

Thanks again for the Minister’s response there. I do have other questions but I see I’m running out of time, so rather than get onto my next set of questions, maybe I’ll see if somebody else wants to go next and you can put my name back on the list.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple quick things. The first thing was, we’re backwards on the art proposal for the art policy or allowing art to be displayed in public areas. Will that policy be coming to Members prior to going to the public? In other words, if Public Works comes up with a policy in some form, will they be coming to Members for advice in advance of going out to, let’s say, arts organizations to build up expectations in advance of us reviewing it? I would think that would be very important.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Obviously, we would be going through

committee for some discussions around that but we also need to approach the arts community themselves to get a sense of what their expectations might be. Their input into the development of a policy would be valuable as well.

There are a number of different organizations that we could approach just to get ideas, not necessarily to have them draft or work on the draft with us, but we need to get some ideas from them on what they would like to see as performing artists, graphic artists, painters, photographers, any of those individuals. We do need to get some sense from them, but like I said, I’m not really comfortable going to different arts organizations until we have a sense of space, because we would hate to give them some false expectations. We may need to take it to Cabinet and FMB as well. We’d certainly involve committee, absolutely.

I would like the assurances and commitment that the Minister will ensure that I’m copied in some way on this particular initiative as this policy gets developed. The reason being, there are a number of institutions, businesses, that is, that sell art in this community and they would view this as competing directly with them. I would want to make sure that their concerns are being represented. If it is to be on display, as I continue to maintain, I have no issue with art being on display, but the issue is that all of a sudden the assumption that while people are viewing it for potential sale and whatnot, then we’re providing free space to folks to sell their art when we have art galleries or other types of business that are trying to make money at this particular thing. Then we seem like we’re providing a space for free and they’re trying to charge and make money, and it’s a bad position to be in.

I’d like the Minister to commit to me that he will ensure that I get a copy of the policy well before it’s implemented so that I can have some input, as well as speak to the constituents who do have businesses in this area.

The Member shares exactly the same concerns I have with this same process. We still need to get a sense of space. There may not be as much and it may not be appropriate for all purposes. We certainly aren’t a retail outlet for art and we don’t want to be a retail outlet for art. We don’t want to challenge or compete with those outlets that are involved in selling art. It’s about displaying local artists. It shouldn’t be too complicated to figure out, but we will, absolutely, work with our colleagues.

I didn’t hear him say yes, he would ensure that I get copied on this if for some reason I’m out of the loop.

The other thing is the insurance requirement. Just as my opinion, I would think that this would be the artists’ problem. My concern is I wouldn’t want the

GNWT to take on some type of liability over a piece of artwork. By way of example, we don’t know how this is going to go and I’m willing to try something new by all means, but I would just be cautious. If someone hangs a painting that’s protected behind a sheet of glass or plexi-glass or whatever the case may be, folks can say, oh, I know that artist, that’s really nice, he sells art. Now we have to go find someone to get it out because they’ve sold it, although they’re not using it. I’m worried about what type of false market we’re creating in the sense of avenue to sell art, as well, so I’m just going to express my cautiousness.

I have a question about the central heating question, but I’d like the Minister to assure me that he will commit that I will be copied on any type of development of this.

Absolutely. The Member is the chair of EDI, which is the committee that we would be going through. He will absolutely, without question, as I indicated before, get the information, as will all Members.

Once again, I share the Member’s concerns with respect to liability. We certainly as a government don’t want to take on additional liability for this purpose. I believe there are individuals who would be interested in this opportunity and I’m sure we can find a reasonable solution with the cooperation of everybody involved.

On another issue, Mr. Bromley has brought this up and actually it’s not so much that I’m concerned on how he brought it up but it’s more about the perception of how it’s brought up. It’s about the city’s potential on the Con Mine heating system or how they want to do a central heating style system in Yellowknife; the city, that is. I often hear people at the city talk about how they’ve got all these partners in some form of some type of commitment, and it’s funny because when I talk to businesses downtown, they’re not interested in this. I don’t know who the city thinks they have on the hook for, we’ll call it a critical mass to move this initiative forward. I can tell you right now that one of their major people that they think they have, they do not have. The next major partner I’d describe is probably the GNWT would be the next, I’ll say, size that should matter.

I guess the question goes to the Minister. In the Minister’s understanding, and certainly in the capacity, is there any letter of intent or similar pieces of paper written to the city about our willingness to commit to this type of project and under what conditions?

In no way have we committed to this project. We have indicated that we are certainly willing to look at all options that save the government money over time, and if they present a business case that is a saving or even comparable to what we are going to be saving

through our new building and the energy efficiencies we are putting in that building, including our biomass system in that building, if the price is comparable, we would certainly be interested in talking, but there is zero commitment at this point. There is nothing to the city saying that we’re committed to this project. We haven’t seen a business case. We have no idea what’s being proposed as far as savings are concerned and long-term benefits are.