Thank you, Madam Chair. My question has to do with the Northern Frontier Visitors Centre. We see a continuance of contributions here of $111,000. However, recently CanNor funding in the fall produced, I believe, about $1 million or so for Northern Frontier Visitors Centre. How did that CanNor federal infusion affect our annual contributions for this year? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Ramsay.

Madam Chair, that won’t change our contributions to the Northern Frontier Visitors Association at all. We will continue to fund them to the level that you see in the budget. Thank you.

Ms. Bisaro.

Madam Chair, I have a question in regard to this sport hunt outfitter marketing support. I mentioned it in my opening remarks. In 2011-12, the actual amount was $494,000. This current fiscal year and intended for 2013-14 is $300,000. I would like to know why the amount has gone down. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Ramsay.

Madam Chair, the budget has gone down. There’s much debate about whether the program itself survived. My belief is that we are fortunate to have $300,000 in this year’s budget to continue the Sport Hunt Outfitter Marketing Program. We’ve done our best to keep it in this year’s budget. It’s at the level it is at and that’s the way it is, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Madam Chair, that’s a great explanation for the outfitters: Sorry, guys; that’s the way it is. I want to reiterate my comments from previously. It is imperative that we find some way to assist these outfitters to maintain at least break-even year to year in keeping their camps from deteriorating any more than they currently are. I think I mentioned the other day that it costs them right now more to maintain a camp for a year when there’s nobody there – and they’re not getting any revenue but they still have to do the maintenance

and the upkeep – it costs them more than what they’re getting out of the Sport Hunt Outfitter Marketing Support Program.

Two things I emphasized the other day that I want to re-emphasize: one is that whatever we can do to fund the outfitters to the value of what it costs them to maintain their camp and, secondly, that the department seriously look at a longer term program as opposed to year to year, that we look at a two- or a three-year program until these outfitters, if and when they get caribou tags, can actually get back to doing the business that they want to do. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I have a lot of sympathy for the outfitters. I have constituents that are in that business that have camps out there north of Yellowknife. The fact of the matter remains. We’ve been funding this for the past four years. The Bathurst caribou herd are not scheduled to be surveyed again until 2015. By the time the results come in, that’s 2016. At some point in time, we are going to have to ask ourselves a question about how long do the taxpayers of the Northwest Territories continue to fund these outfitters that are up there with no caribou to hunt. I can’t put it much more bluntly than that. That’s the dilemma that we are going to be faced with.

As to the future of this program, I think that is going to be front and centre during the business plans later this year. It is a question we’re going to have to ask ourselves. Thank you.

Madam Chair, to the Minister I guess I want to say that the defeatist tone or the defeatist words, I guess, that he’s saying are a real problem for me. Outfitters have generated millions and millions of dollars. It’s in the order of 30 or 40 million dollars, I believe, and yet we are talking $300,000 a year which is peanuts when you compare it to the 30 or 40 million dollars.

I think for the Minister to say we have to let these businesses go, this department is in the business of encouraging industry and maintaining industry. We have umpteen contributions throughout this particular department to various and sundry businesses to help them out and to keep them going. I think we need to reconsider where these particular businesses are at, and we need to consider the revenue we’re going to forgo as a territory and think twice about, well, that’s going to have to be that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I’m certainly not a defeatist. I’m a real optimist, believe me. I always believe that we can get to where we need to go. But the fact of the matter remains. We put $1.8 million into supporting the outfitters. I will mention this, we also contributed $900,000 on this product diversification marketing, some of which accessed this funding to try to diversify their operations so they can get into different lines, not

just caribou outfitting, but different lines of operations, whether it’s getting people out on environmental photo shoots or taking photos of wildlife. Some have looked at that. We’ve put a lot of effort into these programs.

Again, this is a question of how long do we continue to put the money in there. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not taking a defeatist attitude. If we had a defeatist attitude the money wouldn’t be in the budget this year. We need to continue to support them. I’m not saying we don’t support them. I’m just saying we have to make some decisions here soon on how long that support is going to last. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, thanks to the Minister. I have to say that I do appreciate that this money is here and I’m sure the outfitters do as well. To the tourism diversification efforts, there have been efforts but they haven’t panned out. I think the Minister probably knows that. It’s not replacing the outfitting business that these guys had before.

I’ve lost my thought. I want to go back to something that the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources committed to when we were doing that department, and I guess I would like to ask the Minister of ITI if he would perhaps attend the same meeting. The Minister of ENR committed to meet with the outfitters to discuss the possibility of tags. Would the Minister of ITI consider meeting with the outfitters to discuss their situation at the same time? Thank you.

Thank you. What page are we on? Page 12-28, thank you. Tourism and parks, grants and contributions, contributions. Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to do a little follow-up there. I think this fund is very much appreciated and it is a real struggle. I know the Minister is aware of that and I know the outfitters have been working hard to try to diversify, as the Minister is well aware. I’m sure that’s been helpful, but the challenges are clear.

I agree that this government certainly encouraged these outfitters to develop in this way and this government is responsible and failed in their management of caribou. So there is some responsibility here and I’m sure that’s part of the consideration as we support these outfitters.

What we have here is an opportunity for those that actually should have a viable hunt still today. I agree that those that rely on the Bathurst caribou, we’ve failed to get the herd in recovery mode as the responsible managers here. There’s work to be done and the future is bleak. But for those who use the Bluenose-East – I think that’s primarily what

we’re talking about, it seems that there are a couple of outfitters there – there is some hope for. So I hope the Minister will retain and continue this support and I appreciate his offer.

My question is, apparently without significant income and certainly no income from their facilities, there are caches of fuel that are out there. Again, this government told them there would be a hunt and there wasn’t, so they prepared for the hunt. Now they can’t afford to get that fuel back because of environmental concern as well. In those sorts of extraordinary situations, if there was a situation, are we requiring that they declare bankruptcy and walk away before we help? Or would the Minister try to figure out where to try to help address that situation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. We have been very flexible on how they use the funding and we will continue to be as flexible as we can be in working with them. We want to see an industry back there eventually. If there are some prospects with the Bluenose-East and those opportunities present themselves, we should be flexible. We should be working with the outfitters to see some business come back. The dialogue just has to continue. I mentioned earlier to MLA Bisaro that we could look at a joint meeting with ITI, ENR and the outfitters. We need to chart a course forward. We have to put everything on the table.

Like I said, the funding that we’ve got, it can’t last forever. It is probably not going to last forever. That’s why we need to come up with a plan. Whether it’s through product diversification and we try to identify operators that are able to look at diversifying their product, and perhaps there’s some that aren’t, and we have to try to work with them to try to find solutions. That dialogue has to continue.

So I really do appreciate the Members bringing the issue up today. It’s a tough issue, Madam Chair. We’re going to have to make some decisions here soon. It’s by working with the industry and working with ENR that we’re going to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Just before I move on to Mr. Dolynny, there’s been a few questions asked here today that are clearly posed in the hypothetical and I’m trying to think of how they could be reposed. One was if you had another $5 million, what would you do with it, and if the outfitters go broke, what would you do about it. I know there must be some way to ask about some kind of a plan, you know, in the eventuality of people having to cease operations, you know, something, but clearly asking the Minister hypothetical questions that have that kind of an “if” in it, maybe we could find some other way to pose it. Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to dovetail on some of the questions regarding the sport hunter outfitter marketing money. Really, I think we heard a genuine offer from the Minister here. Could the Minister go on record with this committee? Timing is paramount and we agree. We need to look at beyond just the $300,000. These companies, these organizations want to get back on the road to recovery. They want to get back into their business and timing is of the essence. Right now, they’ve got to deal with things this spring in order to plan marketing shows for the fall if, indeed, it’s imminent. So would the Minister commit before the end of this sitting, with his counterpart, to meet with the outfitters and meet with Regular Members to come and put a plan of action together? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have that discussion with my colleague Minister Miltenberger and we’ll get back to the Members on that. We’ll see what we can make happen, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Tourism and parks, grants and contributions, contributions, $4.447 million.

Agreed. Thank you. Moving on to page 12-29, Industry, Tourism and Investment, tourism and parks, active positions, information item. Mr. Dolynny.