Thank you, committee. We will move on to the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. I’d like to thank the witnesses for their attendance here. Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you would please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Alright, committee, Municipal and Community Affairs starts on page 6-7, but before we start, I will go to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and ask Minister McLeod if he has any opening comments.

I am pleased to present the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs’ main estimates for the fiscal year 2013-2014.

The department’s main estimates propose an operations expenditure budget of $98.8 million, an increase of $3.25 million, or 3.4 percent, from the 2012-2013 Main Estimates. The increase consists primarily of $3.68 million in forced growth funding, offset by funding that is sunsetting this fiscal year.

MACA has a broad mandate, focusing on community governments but also providing a range of programs aimed at sport and recreation, youth and volunteers. Of the proposed 2013-2014 budget, approximately 78 percent is provided to our key stakeholders: community governments. This includes $47 million to provide for community government operation and maintenance costs and $14.6 million to provide for water and sewer costs.

MACA will also provide community governments with infrastructure acquisition funding of $28 million in 2013-2014, comprised entirely of capital formula funding.

In addition, the Gas Tax Agreement will provide community governments with funding of $15 million in 2013-2014, unchanged from 2012-2013.

In support of the 17th Legislative Assembly’s goals, MACA will provide technical advice and assistance related to the implementation of integrated community sustainability plans in the areas of energy, capital and human resources. The department will continue to implement the Public Service Capacity Initiative, and will implement an accountability framework to further improve reporting requirements for public funding, and to support community governments’ ability to be accountable to their residents. MACA will also complete the Recreational Leasing Policy Framework.

Through programs such as Active After School, Get Active NWT, traditional games tours and participation in the Healthy Choices Framework, MACA will continue to support the 17th Assembly’s goal of healthy, educated people and its priority of

supporting the health care system through preventative measures such as physical activity.

Forced growth funding accounts for $3.68 million of the year-over-year increase to MACA’s budget reflected in the 2013-2014 Main Estimates. This increase is to provide grants-in-lieu payments to tax-based communities, increased operations and maintenance funding and water/sewer funding due to population growth, and increases in fuel and electricity costs.

The department will also be supporting the government’s decentralization initiative by re-profiling funding for three vacant Yellowknife positions and combining with existing regional position funding to establish five new assistant regional superintendent positions in the Beaufort-Delta, Sahtu, Deh Cho, North Slave and South Slave.

Reported results confirm more communities with accumulated surpluses and fewer communities with accumulated deficits. These are strong indicators of improved financial management, and community governments should be acknowledged for the improvements they have achieved with the support of MACA staff and through the Public Service Capacity Initiative. MACA continues to support community governments in their capacity building initiatives, and funding the public service capacity is again reflected in MACA’s 2013-2014 Main Estimates. There has been a great deal of work done on this program over the past year, and the input of our partners from the NWT Association of Communities, the Local Government Administrators of the NWT and the Department of Human Resources has been instrumental in improving the program. The department is currently working to finalize an evaluation framework to use to measure results and to report on the program and its outcomes.

MACA is in the third year of implementing its strategic plan, and will continue to report on progress through the business planning process. Continued support of community capacity building, land management initiatives, youth leadership development and healthy choices are just some examples of how MACA is responding to the priorities of the 17th Assembly.

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to provide an overview of the department’s 2013-2014 Main Estimates. I look forward to discussing them with you.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Do you have witnesses you wish to bring into the Chamber?

I do, Madam Chair.

Agreed?

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you would please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Minister McLeod, please introduce your witnesses for the House.

Thank you, Madam Chair. To my left I have Mr. Tom Williams, deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs; to my immediate right I have Mr. Gary Schauerte, director of corporate services for Municipal and Community Affairs; and I have, to my far right, Ms. Eleanor Young, associate assistant deputy minister for Municipal and Community Affairs. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. We will start with general comments. Are there any general comments?

Mr. Nadli.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just some general comments. The Minister and the department might be familiar with some of the points I’m going to highlight and this goes to the communities that I represent. For some time it’s been their aspirations to try to at least take on the responsibility of serving their citizens to the fullest. One of them is being able to have their own water source. There are two communities in particular that I represent, Enterprise and Kakisa, that have for a long time aspired to ensure that they have the responsibility.

I have raised this on a number of occasions. It continues to be an aspiration that they want to work on. I know they have considered some options, whether they do well water or trucked services. It could be a partnership arrangement. It continues to be a point that communities have aspired to work and continue to lobby their efforts to ensure in the end their strong will. Hopefully, there will be a compromise or a middle point where the department will be in a position to assist the communities. Eventually, they would like to realize their own source of water in both Enterprise and Kakisa.

For some time, too, I know there’s been a New Deal with MACA and communities, where money and funds have been downloaded to communities for them to be responsible for ensuring that they have their capital wish list or capital plan wish list, and at the same time giving them the responsibility for operations and maintenance. It’s good, but at the same time it shouldn’t be the case where MACA basically walks away from their responsibility. There has to be an assured level of cooperation and stronger than ever if these communities that have aspirations to establish their own water source, that partnership needs to be there. I would encourage it.

I’m hoping we can make some advances over the course of this year.

Another point that I wanted to make is just highlighting two fundamental things that I’ve been monitoring and trying to get some movement on, on the matter of ground ambulance and also the highway fire emergency situations. I think MACA has been in the lead for some time to try and get at least an interdepartmental cooperation and level of discussion in terms of trying to focus on the issues of trying to establish those two initiatives within the NWT. I understand there are some fundamental challenges with respect to liability issues in terms of a volunteer brigade from the community that might make a Good Samaritan decision and assist the public out on the highway, and then the question of liability has been brought up. In the end, it’s the citizens of the NWT that we have to serve. Down the road more likely we’ll be seeing more visitors hopefully coming up North, travelling the highway system and the eventuality of perhaps an unfortunate accident may happen and may arise and at the call of a whim a decision has to be made where this volunteer fire brigade has to be employed and provide service to the public. Some focus needs to be shed on this initiative.

I understand it’s been an ongoing matter for some time. I think it’s come to the forefront because of the opening of the Deh Cho Bridge. We have 24-hour uninterrupted traffic flowing right from North of 60 to Yellowknife. We need to ensure that there’s marked progress, and perhaps an established understanding of how ground ambulance and highway fire emergencies will be arrived at. I hope during the life of at least this Assembly I will be able to witness some significant progress in the front. In the end it’s the spirit of helping out the public that requires need and assistance on the highway, or else even, for that matter, for the smaller communities that are in the circumstance where they have a volunteer fire brigade in their community. They have to act in circumstances where they have to assist the public, especially in the community level as well. I think there needs to be a focus on training and preparing people to be in the position to help the public. Those are just general comments at this point.

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Next on the list is Mr. Dolynny.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d like to welcome the Minister and the Department of MACA here today. As I said, sometimes we don’t stop and be thankful for some of the great work that departments and senior leadership provide to the people of the Northwest Territories. I think this is one of those occasions where I need to aim my congratulations on how the Minister and department deal with sport, recreation and youth. As far as I’m concerned, you guys are well beyond your leadership in this area in relation to even provincial counterparts, and I encourage you to continue down that path. I think that’s a very strong message and it’s one in which you don’t get too often from this Member when things go well. Congratulations.

There is no denying that I have brought many, many times to this House and I wish I could have

seen this topic embedded within the opening comments. That subject is emergency preparedness. I can’t stress enough the fact that I believe if there is one opportunity for this department, it’s to focus resources and priorities in preparing our communities for that inevitable day that could happen to any one of them. We had a bit of a glimpse of that earlier this year with two of our communities. We’ve also seen a very tragic accident on our highway system as of late which also… I’ll talk to that in a second and echo my comments to Mr. Nadli here. I’m very concerned that the department is either underfunded in this area or isn’t treating this in the proper respect, if we’re using the right measuring stick, to put that in light of what I think is required by this department. What I mean by that is that I am looking for that day when all communities have complete and updated hazard and fire assessments. Sometimes a lot of these terminologies get really confused, not only in this building. They get confused at media level and they definitely get confused sometimes at community level. As I said, the fire and hazard assessments, all 33 communities, it would be a great accolade to see that done in this fiscal year.

Complementing that would be the completion of all community emergency action files, which, in my mind, is a very different element to the fire and hazard assessments. To that, I would hope that this information, once it’s compiled, is systematically filed and maintained in a real-time database. It makes no use to put this in a hard copy format. This has to be something that is accessible by all communities in real time. I feel that the GNWT needs to focus the proper resources and expertise to achieve that milestone. I challenge them in this fiscal year, if they don’t have it in place, to put the means in place, to do it by our next budget, because I will be bringing those same comments back to this House. I’m hoping that the Minister will have promising opening comments to address what I’m talking about. This type of emergency information is a two-way street design. What I mean by two-way is that we need to basically integrate all this information with our federal counterparts. Right now our communities are operating as silos in relation to emergency situations. Should an emergency arise, this real-time information or the lack of a plan will hamper and put our communities and people at risk. The federal components do have the capabilities of aiding us, but if we’re not able to communicate or we don’t have the contact person or we don’t have the phone number, how are we able to prevent injury or harm or further disaster and cost and potentially lives to our communities?

I don’t want to undermine what I’m talking about there. I want this information to resonate loud and clear with this department, because I will continue on my quest to move this forward. I want to make

sure that we provide the ongoing emergency management training for all our, whether it’s fire chiefs or base superintendents for community services in this area. I want to reach out and not normally would I say this here, but every time I do my investigations in this area there’s one name that comes out that I believe deserves an accolade and I have no problem putting that name on record here. That name is Kevin Brezinski. He deserves full praise. He is working extremely hard in this area to mitigate the exact thing that I’m talking about. Sometimes we don’t give praise to very hardworking employees out there that are working for the GNWT. I hope that we provide all the needed resources, funds, and all the tools at our disposal to aid people like that to make sure that this vision comes true.

I also want to echo the comments that were brought forward by the Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli. He spoke very profoundly of the needs of his community. I think he speaks to the truth of all communities in dire need of this government, this department, to look at the extension of what I was just talking about, and that is the extension of our Ground Ambulance Program, our highway fire and emergency service. As we found out, the Emergency Triage Intervention Program, via whether it’s air ambulance, so they’re working in conjunction with other departments, the inter-department relationships that this department will need to achieve to allow the people of the Northwest Territories the confidence.

We have the capabilities and the abilities to protect our own in the event of tragedy. Currently, I think it’s painfully obvious that we do not have the proper systems in place, and that’s no fault to anyone. It’s the fault that we haven’t put enough resources into this. Unfortunately, I hope that no one in this room and no one that’s listening in today are involved in a situation where a loved one is put at risk or in peril, or potentially death of a result of the fact that we could have, or should have, done something in this area years ago. I put the challenge out not only to this department, but I put the challenge out to the Department of Finance: Find the money for this, period. This is something you cannot put down on a spreadsheet, this is not a line item on a balance sheet, these are lives. And I’m sorry, you cannot put a dollar figure on a life, not in any budget, not in any budget that I have.

So I challenge this department to continue their quest to look at ways just to put this program in place, and I ask that they follow some very key components to that ask, and I ask that this be a fully coordinated program. I ask that this become a very standardized program. So whether you’re in community X or you’re in community Y, our systems are standardized. If we have a ground fleet or an ambulance fleet that if I go into the back of that truck, that I know that the fire extinguisher is in

the same spot, that that First Aid kit is in the same spot, that those Band-Aids are in the same spot, so we can actually coordinate our efforts in the event of a major emergency, that if we’re bringing in help from other regions, they don’t have to learn the system. They just need to act and react accordingly.

Finally, it goes without saying, when we’re dealing with budget, is to please make this cost effective. We can make this cost effective. There are many programs and protocols out there provincially, that are light years ahead of us. Let’s learn from our counterparts. Let’s learn from our brothers and sisters down south to make a more cost-effective program and tailor this program to our uniqueness, our geographic uniqueness of the Northwest Territories. And let’s make this, together, a successful program.

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It comes as no surprise, I’m sure, to the Minister that I’d like to raise the consumer affairs issue. I think this is an area that seems to be underexplored by this government and whether it’s the lending agencies of the small little loan companies out there, payday loans as they’re often referred to, which I’ve had concern with in the…or even to the gas prices or the cell phone issue that I raised the week before. I’d like to hear from the Minister on how they plan to work with this area, perhaps maybe even bolster it and support it in a manner that it gets out into the public, talks to the public, to all four corners of the NWT and gets people’s feedback and engagement into consumer protection issues. I mean, why have a consumer affairs division if they a, have no teeth and b, certainly fall more anonymous than, certainly, in the public’s eye.

The cell phone issue, as I raised earlier, is a critical issue, but consumers really don’t know what to do or where to go, and I think they feel helpless if not stranded by their government on the anonymity of this particular section. I’m not suggesting in any way that they don’t do work or the work that they do manage to do is of any lesser quality. The reality is, it has become largely anonymous and I think it’s time that in this heightened awareness role of society where people need to know where to go when they have concerns, they need to know that their government is listening, that they’re certainly available, and these are their rights. But right now, as it stands, as I said, it’s more of an anonymous situation than it is a public one. I would challenge the Minister, and certainly the department, to offer ways and suggestions in a creative fashion to show how they could do more with this area, because I think it’s very, very important.

Active living is very important. We see it highlighted in the Minister’s opening comments, as well as we’re all well-versed, very clearly, in MACA’s goal about helping getting youth active, but there’s often a critical component, and I’ve highlighted this, that seniors’ activity is a gaping hole in our public system here where we don’t have a specific mandate to support them in an active type of living. The challenge, of course, I’m proposing to the department is the fact is they need to be able to offer services. There have been gaps in a manner of being able to fill. We’ve been able to reach out and find service agencies that, by the way, get their money from MACA, which is a bit of a paradox. MACA can’t help them but they can give money to somebody else who can help seniors, which seems to be a paradox by itself. There needs to be some recognition that seniors need to be active. They want to be active and they need support mechanisms.

I probably beat my colleague to the punch on this one, but not necessarily on purpose but to further underscore how important it is, which is the 911 system. I know that Ms. Bisaro has raised it even recently, and the Minister has spoken positively to this. I’m kind of glad to hear that it’s in the focus of the department, and I’d like to hear more as to what they can do or certainly how they’re probably trying to drive this to a solution. I know I’ve raised it a few times in the House and I’ve even had good discussions with NorthwesTel about logistics and technical abilities. They have had the ability to provide a tier-two 911 system, and it’s a shame that the government hasn’t gotten behind that. But now the proverbial excuse of cell phones being part of the problem, whereas then they couldn’t do a full implementation has now been relieved from the government as being a barrier. So I look forward to hearing the government providing some input and certainly some proposals.

I agree with Member Dolynny that the programs offered for community ambulance services or extension of emergency services are probably very weak, and the fact that communities are doing the best that they can, and they certainly need the support of equipment, training, as well as the financial authority to go make the right call. I mean, I’d hate to think that someone hesitated to go rescue a person in need on a highway and it all came down to simple things like authority or they didn’t have the money to do it. The government needs to be standing shoulder to shoulder with these Good Samaritans who are willing to join these community services programs. They’re largely volunteer so, in other words, they’re underpaid and probably under gratified in the sense of the work they do, but it’s so important to the community that they’re there if they need someone in an ambulance or a fire service. That work is absolutely critical. It’s just one of those things. I

wish we could pay them but we just, obviously, don’t have the money to do it.

I just want to restate seniors programming and funding for seniors to get them active. I think that’s very critical, from my point of view, although I’ve probably overused the word critical. It’s trying to stress how important I think it is. I have a large seniors’ community in my riding. I would say, to some degree, not unlike anyone else, but I’m there regularly at the Baker Centre with the Yellowknife seniors, and even at times we see people and we speak with them from the territorial seniors’ point of view, and it’s so exciting watching them engage into lawn bowling or types of participation that keeps them healthy. It becomes one of the fundamentals that if they’re not active, it starts having a ripple effect or a trickle effect against their general health. I mean, it’s wise for our government to find new ways to get our seniors active, and if the department was clever, they would probably try to link it to some type of youth programming where we get the seniors to take the youth out for a walk or a brisk walk in some manner or we get the youth to take the seniors out. I mean, there’s got to be a neat way to get them engaged. I mean, that would sort of speak to the fundamental type of government we run and maybe the territory we live in, which is we always want to talk about linking the youth to seniors, and here could be a new, innovative way that the department could come up with a program that, you know, get granny walking but maybe granny’s out spending some time with the young folks being active as well. It could be a great way of doing things.

That said, that seems to be all I would feel at this time I’d prefer to comment on. I will leave the rest up to my colleagues. I will have further questions page by page.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. General comments. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a number of comments in no particular order. Some of them have already been mentioned and I’ll just kind of add emphasis to them as I add them.

I want to thank Mr. Hawkins for bringing up 911. The Minister knows it’s something that I’ve been somewhat passionate about for quite some time now, and I recognize that there’s no money in the budget for any kind of 911 this year, but I would hope that the department would seriously consider looking at providing some assistance to the City of Yellowknife if you get a proposal for the 2014-15 budget year. It’s not a huge amount of money that’s required, and I know there’s not a huge amount of money that the department has at its disposal, but I just want to put the seed out there and hope that you think about supporting the city to get something started in regard to 911.

I agree with Mr. Dolynny’s comments about emergency preparedness. It is something which I think has taken a bit of a backseat and has lost focus since we reduced staffing at the department. I can’t remember when it was, but a couple of years ago we reduced the number of staff within the emergency preparedness section. I think that’s been to the detriment of, sort of, well, the territory as a whole but our communities as well. I’ll just leave it at that. Mr. Dolynny has emphasized things really well.

The Minister, in his opening comments, mentioned the accountability framework, and I will have some questions when we come to that section.

The Recreational Leasing Policy Framework was also mentioned, and I will have some questions when we get to there as well.

I do want to say that in terms of what I consider to be an extremely successful program, and I think the Minister considers it that as well, is the Youth Ambassadors Program. It’s kind of grown over the years, it’s now well-entrenched within the department, and I think it has proven to be a very valuable program for our youth. It’s been valuable for us in terms of promotion of the territory, but it’s also been really valuable to the youth in terms of their development as young people and as leaders.

I will have some questions when we come to it about the changes to legislation of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. I would hope that the department is moving towards including municipalities under that legislation.

Kind of along the same lines is the transfer of taxation capabilities to municipalities. I know that’s been mentioned and I’ll have some questions when we get to there to see where things are at with that.

I am concerned about the, I don’t know if it’s slowed or stalled or whatever, but the opportunity for a municipality to implement a hotel levy if they wish to do so. I know the hoteliers within the city of Yellowknife would like to see a hotel levy and the revenue put back into tourism marketing and promotion.

I, too, have major concerns about the ground ambulance and highway rescue policy, or lack of, and the amount of money that’s available to municipalities. We need to allow for training, equipment and capabilities in all of our communities that are on the highway system to be able to respond. It goes beyond ground ambulance. That’s been sort of the focus for the last number of years, just to sort of reimburse communities for the costs of responding with ground ambulance to situations outside the community. Yellowknife, for instance, down the Ingraham Trail, if an ambulance has to go out there, that costs the city, that’s not within the city’s municipal boundaries. But, you know, the city sends fire crews and sends emergency crews out

anyway. We need to go beyond having the capabilities so that municipalities feel comfortable in being able to respond to some kind of an accident or some kind of an emergency on the highway, and we don’t have that right now. I know it’s an expensive proposition. I know it was looked into a number of years ago, but I think we have to go back to that and try to find a solution, maybe halfway in the middle. But we’ve got to do something to protect our residents and protect municipalities.

There has been reference to evaluation of funding formulas. I believe last year we were advised that the operations and maintenance funding formula was going to be reviewed this year, so I’ll have some questions when we come to that portion.

I also would like to hear from the department when we get to that section, how the Public Service Capacity Program is doing – it’s been two years now, I think – and whether there’s been an evaluation done by the department, and the impact that it has had in communities and whether it’s successful or not, that sort of thing.

That’s all I have, Mr. Chair, but I’ll have specific questions when we get to certain sections of the department. Thank you.

Great. Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. General comments. Okay, I’ll allow the Minister to reply to general comments. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the comments from the Members. The comments were all basically the same and I think these are issues that we’ve been working on.

There’s concern with the ground ambulance and highway rescue. I’ve committed to Members that we are looking at that. We’ll answer specific questions when we get into the particular page, but I do know we’re considering a couple of possible pilot projects; one for sure, possibly two in the north and south communities that are on the highway system. We’re looking at rolling that out soon.

Then there was the water source that Mr. Nadli had raised. We are working closely with the communities of Kakisa and Enterprise to see what options they would have. I made the comment about downloading responsibility on to communities. That is exactly what we have done, we have downloaded responsibility on the communities because the communities have proven that they are quite capable of handling all the new responsibility. We continue to work with them. We see a role now as just working closely with the communities, assisting them any way we can.

Again, the emergency issue came up a couple of times. We have a number of communities that have updated emergency plans. Some of the communities, in particular Mr. Bouchard raised Hay

River, and they have an excellent plan. Having to deal with floods on a number of occasions, they have a good emergency plan in place. We’ve had a couple of issues with some of the other communities.

Again, we have 16 communities that have updated plans, 15 that need updating and two communities without an emergency plan, but we are working closely with the communities to make sure that they get all of their plans updated and we will continue to do that work. I think we have seen, in the last little while, the importance of having good emergency plans and central contact people. So we’ll get all of that straightened away. I think Mr. Dolynny’s comment was I want to see by next budget here that we have all these in place. I can commit that we’ll have more updated action plans by the time we get to the next budget session, probably even through business plan.

Ms. Bisaro raised a number of issues that talked about the 911 that she’s raised on a number of occasions. Again, I think we had that exchange in the House. She said she will have questions when we come to the appropriate page. I think I will just hold off comments until we come to the appropriate pages in the budget and we’ll have a further discussion.

That’s all I have for now, Mr. Chair. I do know that we’re going to be going page by page and Members will have questions. So rather than me trying to answer them all now, I’ll wait until we get to detail. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Hawkins.