This is page numbers 2919 – 2954 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d like to welcome the Minister and his dream team of finance expertise here. I want to commend, I mean I know what it takes to put a budget together and this is not an easy endeavour. Albeit this is not the biggest budget we’ve seen in the House, this is still a fairly significant budget with respect to the public’s money.

I’m going to keep my comments somewhat general, but I want to make sure that they’re taken in the context as is being delivered, and it’s important that it is being taken in the context delivered. You may hear, and you’ve heard maybe some overlap and some of the same concerns that Members have here. We’re hoping that those comments do not get lost in the shuffle and that these comments need to be taken to heart.

I think the first comment that I think is critical is that we keep hearing that this is a budget of the 17th Assembly, and I want to stress again, this is not the budget of the 17th Assembly. This is the

government’s budget and Members have input on it. Albeit it feels at times less input, but this is not my budget. This is your budget and it’s critical that if there are issues with your budget, we need to make a clear indication where there’s opportunity, and you hear different variances of that depending on the Members that you have here, the different needs of the community. But I don’t want to water down what those needs are. Those needs are critical. I do support whether it’s infrastructure in the Sahtu, Beau-Del, Deh Cho, these are all important and they’re important to Members, and they’re important to all Members on this side of the House.

That being said, there are a couple of key areas to which I just want to take a moment to address in general format and I’ll be looking forward to dealing with the individual items in detail. One of the observations, especially with deferred maintenance, is the fact that a lot of Members feel that deferred maintenance is a growing issue. It’s something

we’ve got to do, we understand that, but the cycle is becoming larger, it’s almost perpetuating and items are deteriorating at a faster rate. Whether we’re catching them in time is something that we really want to put an emphasis on the department to maybe keep Members more in tune what’s coming up on the horizon so we don’t have surprises. I think that’s probably the biggest question there.

The other thing is the fact that when we deal with a budget, it would be very nice to have what I refer to as one budget, not one budget here and an appropriation here and, well, we’ve got something coming in a few weeks here and, oh, by the way, we forgot about this here. It’s very, very confusing to understand the overall arching issue of a budget when a budget is not all inclusive so that all capital amounts are put in place. So I strongly encourage the finance team, in conjunction with the deputy ministers and Ministers, to come up with one budget when we’re doing this process, and not having well, we don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle here, but we’ll bring it in in a couple of months. It’s extremely hard to follow the money when that occurs. It’s also extremely hard… If we’re having a hard time following money, I can assure that the general public, who have a reasonable degree of watching what we’re doing here, would also have an extremely hard time watching the money. It’s about transparency and I think we owe it to the public purse to be as transparent, open and less confusing as possible.

As well, it was also noted – and we had this conversation with the Minister – that we felt that although the term “forced growth” was indicated that it was capped at 1.5 percent, this number is maybe questionable, and that we may want to have that number revisited just to make sure that we are really dealing with a true number moving forward.

You heard from a number of Members here regarding education infrastructure and that there was a, I think Madam Bisaro used the word “paltry” amount put into education, and I agree with that word. But I can assure you that you’re going to hear, during the course of this exercise, new school infrastructure in Trout Lake, Colville and in Yellowknife as being very important issues. Not to mention the fact, as we heard from a number of Members here, Aurora campus, college. These are important priorities and we need to look at assessing and applying the necessary funds for these priority projects. We’re hoping that your team sees the need from our side of the fence here in terms of what is important, not just for the Members but for all the people of the Northwest Territories.

That being said, I want to just take a moment to talk a little bit about supporting for Avens. It was almost an implied, and Avens being a seniors complex that is requesting or has the foresight to look in the future and say we’re going to run into problems. We

all agree that everyone around this table is inching ever so closely to that age of retirement, albeit some faster than others, but it is going to be a concern. Our aging population in the Northwest Territories is no different than any other jurisdiction in Canada, and every other jurisdiction in Canada is preparing for that. I thank Avens. We have to give them kudos for coming up with a plan, but we can’t leave them high and dry. We have to work with this organization.

I want to make it quite clear that this is not a Yellowknife project. Yes, it’s built in Yellowknife. Yes, it’s located down the street from the Legislative Assembly, but I believe with the statistics that we were given, that over 60 percent of the residents at Avens are from outlying communities. This is a community centre. This is a community project, and I think it’s important that we treat it as a community project and not just as a Yellowknife project. I’m going to be seeking not only support from my colleagues on this side of the House, I’m going to be seeking support from my colleagues on the other side of the House who are actually paying attention today. It’s impressive. It’s a novelty.

I think we’ve got to put it on the radar. We’ve got to put it on the radar sooner than later. I don’t want to see it at the end of the 17th Assembly; I want to see

it during the 17th Assembly.

Adding to that is that we’ve spoken many, many times in the House – I’m one of them; I’m inclusive in this – is the fact that public safety is of vital importance; public safety on our highways, public safety with ground ambulance. I can’t tell you how many Member’s statements and oral questions that I’ve made. I lost count how many on this side of the House. And those are just the few that actually make it to the floor of this House. How many other instances don’t even make our in-box or e-mails or people who stopped us on the street or Tim Horton’s and say, I’m concerned; I’m concerned that my wife went down the highway and something happened and there was nothing for her to have, and her cell phone didn’t work where she was. The people have spoken loud and clear. They’ve said, quite clearly, fix the problem; deal with the problem.

When we’re looking at an infrastructure budget like this where a weighted average, a heavy weighted average is with new road construction. And I get it. I’ve raised my hand and I’ve voted towards projects too. I’m just as guilty. But when the weighted average of a project like this is literally peeling the vital energy of resource dollars to one single project or new project of infrastructure and it’s taking away from public safety, I think we’ve got to rebalance and redo our thinking.

Why are we rushing to build this in four years? We’re hearing the fact that it’s going to cost us more. Well, I can also tell you the fact that we don’t

even have the full budget yet, as we clearly know, so it might cost us more. We can’t guarantee this project is going to be under $300 million. We know that. We just don’t know what it is. You’re going to hear me say many times during the next couple of weeks, give me a couple kilometres of road for this, give me a couple kilometres of road for that, because a couple kilometres of road is six million bucks. That’s a lot of money. We can do some really good and a lot of endeavours, albeit outside of infrastructure, for anything. I’m just saying, we’ve got to think smarter, and I’m not sure if this budget is dealing with that type of smart thinking.

The other one I want to talk about just briefly – and it was touched on by Member Bromley – is we’ve got a couple highways in and around the Yellowknife area, and yes, we spent over $100 million on Highway No. 3. Unfortunately, that last go-around had a taillight warranty and we got what we got. Now we’ve got exactly what we got, which is a public safety nightmare. There is no way on God’s green earth you can drive that road at the posted speed limit. I double dog dare anyone in this room to do that. Good luck. It ain’t going to happen. And if you do, you have a first round ticket to Canadian Tire to get new shocks, new tires, or maybe a new front end, because that’s exactly what’s going to happen. For us not to consider doing what’s right, which is probably the most travelled road in the Northwest Territories, which is the Highway No. 3 segment between Behchoko and Yellowknife, you place that segment of road on any other road stretch in the Northwest Territories and I guarantee you it’s off the charts. We don’t like to talk about it very much, but it’s off the charts. It’s used more than any other road, but yet we’re throwing rice at a freight train, and we’re hoping that the little bit of patchwork and everything else, and we hear kilometre this and kilometre that has been done. It doesn’t cut the mustard. It’s a public safety nightmare. In fact, one of our own Members had to save a young man in the last year or so, and thank God one of our Members here with a SAT phone.

The other segment of road that I think is way overdue – and for whatever reason, whether they ran out of money or whatever – is the road to Detah. Why not finish that road? What makes them drop to the bottom of the queue over new road infrastructure? Who makes that decision? How is that decided upon? How many years are we going to leave that road unattended? These are questions that we continuously ask. I can dust off 100 Hansards and I bet you I can find that comment at least 100 times in this House. Yet, we’re talking about it again, and it’s still not on here. Yet, we’ve got a lot of new road infrastructure and a weighted average of this budget is towards that. I think we’ve really got to look at balancing.

All in all, again, I understand the complexities of doing a budget. I’ve done budgets all my life. But I also remember when I was doing budgets, you have to listen to the needs, not just the needs of the people in the ivory towers and what’s important. You have to look at the needs of the people on this side of the House, and more importantly, you have to look at the needs of the people who put us in these chairs. They’re holding us accountable, and they’re holding the accountability of the Members on that side of the House – which are called Ministers – they’re holding them accountable too. We’re not heeding to their call, and I think that we’ve got an opportunity here, and I’m hoping through the next couple of weeks that we’re going to be able to address this budget in its true format, talk about the high level items, and hopefully find some common ground and, hopefully, maybe make some changes if we can. But moreover, maybe set the stage for this next go-around so we can see it done a little bit better, a little bit more attuned to what the needs are, and let’s listen to this side of the House.

I don’t want to be just spewing hot air. I’ve got better things to do tonight. Thank you very much.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Miltenberger, would you like to reply?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to thank the Member for his comments, and I won’t try to restate my comments that I made to Ms. Bisaro or Mr. Bromley, but I recognize the overlap that the Member is talking about.

The issue of this is not an Assembly budget, in a consensus government I would say that this is a collective process. If it wasn’t an Assembly budget and this was party politics, we would have walked in here today and this would be the first time you would be seeing the budget, and we would be having a discussion that would last probably a few days, and then we would vote. I mean, we work on this process basically year round, so we are definitely listening.

You commented that you were glad to see we are paying attention, yet we’ve got to think smarter. I want to assure the Member that we listen extremely closely to every Member, take copious notes, and we definitely give the Members’ comments the consideration they deserve. I just want to reassure that we are paying very close attention.

I won’t touch on his comment about his spewing hot air. I will let that one stand on its own merit. He needs no help from us to defend that statement.

The issue of the education and health issues are noted. I would point out with the Avens that we, in the not-too-distant past, concluded a fairly significant addition. At that time we had the foresight, as well, working with them, to give them a

fairly large piece of land to be able to do expansions. We now know that there is a growing demand for seniors’ services, which is one of the reasons why we are working in the Sahtu to put in a long-term care facility.

In the road to Detah, all of us can talk and point to no shortage of issues back to that we have far more needs than we have resources, that things are taking a long time and are going to continue to take time just because we have to make choices. I have sat here for going on my 19th year with Members

from the Sahtu talking about basic roads, and as they listen to the discussion around the territory about we would like better roads, we would like paving, we would like chipseal, and now the two MLAs I have been working with have raised that point repeatedly just to remind us that there are, in fact, some jurisdictions that don’t have any roads. We have to, as we make choices, keep those pressures in mind.

I thank the Member for his comments. We will collectively work to get through the review. At the end of the day, we will collectively vote on the budget of the 17th Legislative Assembly for 2014-

15. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The last person I have on my list today is Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a few comments that I would like to make to the budget. For the last two years the Minister has been saying that we are preserving our budget, keeping good track of our budget for the last two years of our term. Just looking at the budget, it is almost similar as last year. I was expecting maybe a $300 million budget this year just spread out amongst the communities.

I do appreciate the budget right now. There is $2 million set aside for the riding I represent, but there are a number of concerns in my riding, actually, with the project that is the Inuvik-Tuk highway.

Just one thing people would like to see is more training in the communities. That hasn’t happened. I am very surprised. It seems like every time we see a major project, whether it is oil and gas in the Sahtu, training takes a long time to be implemented. As soon as we hear of a project that’s going to happen, we need to start implementing right away these training mechanisms. I hope that starts right now because the employment rates are still the same in the communities, 30 to 35 percent. We need to improve that.

I was just thinking when my last colleague was speaking, just think of the boost we would give the communities if we were to give them $1 million for their own projects, the amount of employment that we could create in the smaller communities. That is thinking outside the box. I think that is what we

need to do here. We have two years left in our term and I would like to see something like that happen.

With that said, I do appreciate the amount of money that is being spent in my riding. It could always be more, but I would like to thank everyone that worked together to get this budget in place. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Blake. I just want to remind everybody that we are talking about the capital budget here. Minister Miltenberger, do you have any remarks?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Member’s comments. I just want to point out that the prior year’s budget was $171.025 million. This year is $254.118 million, so we are not quite at $300 million. So we have added to the budget, but we do, as all Members recognize, have a very rigorous process. Over the years that has been tailored to try to deal with this because it is such an important issue and there are not a lot of resources, and that need for comfort, both to the public we represent and to the Members, that we have as fair and balanced a system as possible in trying to make the determination.

I appreciate the Member’s wish that we had even more money and that we could spread it around with more enthusiasm, but I think we would hit the fairness test. The Minister of Transportation will be up here and will talk to you about the Inuvik-Tuk highway and training issues.

As we try to pursue the Member’s suggestion that we think outside the box and be creative as possible, we are interested in being creative, but we also want to make sure that in 716 days when the new government comes into being, we have not stripped the cupboard bare, and that the incoming government has flexibility to carry on a lot of the good work. We have to hit that balance as we try to be more effective and creative in how we do this. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Minister. I am sure we could all agree one wish is to have more money. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we report progress.

---Carried

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

I will now rise and report progress. Before I do, I would like to ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses from the House. Thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Bromley.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 107-17(4), Capital Estimates 2014-2015, and I would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. A motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder? The honourable Mr. Ramsay.

---Carried

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Opposed? Oh, one opposed. Mr. Hawkins.

Item 22, third reading of bills. Madam Clerk, item 23, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Clerk Of The House (Ms. Langlois)

Mr. Speaker, orders of the day for Friday, October 18, 2013, 10:00 a.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 22, Territorial Emblems and Honours Act

- Tabled Document 70-17(4), Electoral Boundaries Commission, Final Report, May 2013

- Tabled Document 107-17(4), NWT Capital Estimates 2014-2015

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Friday, October 18th , at 10:00 a.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:33 p.m.