This is page numbers 2197 – 2254 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was work.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

In some cases do we require more in the context of the value of a bond versus a cash deposit and, if so, what are the circumstances contrived around that situation?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. For that we’ll go to Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will go to the deputy for some specifics, but just a reminder to committee that we deal with a huge range of contracts from small capital to larger capital to, sort of, more administrative contracts. So everyone would be slightly different. We’d use the same policies and procedures, but for specifics I’ll go to the deputy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The bond would cover labour and materials, those types of things. Again, the contractor would purchase the bond, the bonding company would do its due diligence on the contractor to ensure that they have the ability to lead the work, the ability to pay the subcontractors, the ability to deliver the project, and they’re in a sense guaranteeing to the government that the work will be performed even in the event that the

contractor fails to deliver, the bonding company is responsible to fund the completion of the work. So in those cases we would look for a bond that covers the value of the work.

In cases where we don’t have a bond and we want cash security or we want to retain a holdback, we would want to ensure that we have enough funding in place in securities, through either cash or a letter of credit, that would allow us to ensure that the contract is completed and that the subcontractors are paid. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. Do we have any policy that focuses in on northern versus southern type of contractor, whereas by way of an example we have an expectation that a Northerner can use either a deposit or a bond, but southern contractors with zero investment here in the North must go by bond?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s not specific to that. It really depends on the size of the contract, the magnitude of the contract, the cost of the contract, not where a vendor happens to be located.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Why on large contracts – and I’m not going to try to be too specific or we’d be here all day – do we have a policy that it’s only bond versus deposit?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I don’t believe that is the case, but for specifics we’ll go to the deputy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Generally on large contracts we would require a bond but there can be situations where a bond would not be required and that would be looked at on case-by-case basis. If there was an alternative security required, we would have to refer to the contract regs to see what was applicable.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

What is the typical deposit range asked for when someone cannot get a bonding, that is a southern contractor? Also, the same question, if they are a northern contractor what is the range?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

I would need more information about the type of contract and the type of work, and I would have to go back and refer to what’s allowable through the contract regulations or any particular type of contract. We do a number of different contracts. It could be for goods or services, it could

be for janitorial work, it could be for the construction of a building. I would need more detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Okay, well, in a construction-type contract where we’re building, say, a warehouse, by way of example, just to make life simple, and the warehouse is $2 million – perhaps not unlike the one that’s proposed in Tuktoyaktuk, $1 million planning, $1 million in construction fees, or something like that. A $2 million project on a warehouse. If a southern company won this bid, what would their deposit be if they couldn’t get bonding, and if a local company out of Tuktoyaktuk wanted to do this project and they couldn’t get bonding, what type of deposit would be in that range?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

I would have to look at the specific tender documents for that contract to see what is specified before I could respond to that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Would the Minister be willing to get me some information on how the application and some examples of both the bond and deposits are put on our capital works projects, as well as specifically break out northern versus southern contractors?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We can provide that information to committee for Public Works and Services managed and administered contracts.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I’ll thank him for that. The next question I would have is: Do we have a policy on our projects that we implement or contract or sign on where they must pay their northern suppliers or their workforce or their subs within a certain amount of time?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I would suggest that payment schedules are negotiated between our primary and their subcontractors. We don’t have a position on that subcontract.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Is there any reason why we wouldn’t have a position noting the circumstance for an obvious dispute? That’s an easy one to say if there were disputes it may not be easy to fulfill, say within three weeks. Why wouldn’t the Government of the Northwest Territories have a policy to say that the general must pay a contractor within, say, 30 days of fulfilling their obligations met within the contract unless there is a dispute to ensure northern contractors get paid in a timely way?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Some of that would be dealt with by the bonding companies but also negotiations between the primary and the sub based on the accounting practices and operations of the primary as well as the sub. The accountability and liability in those contracts lie between the primary and the sub and not between the GNWT

and the sub. So it would be a responsibility of the primary to do that.