This is page numbers 5033 – 5072 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was million.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Trust is a very difficult thing to build. It takes experience and it certainly takes a relationship. I am glad we have some elders coming in, but it’s not a permanent solution.

What efforts are being made to permanently fill this position, because it is critical for the well-being and rehabilitation of inmates who need this vital service. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

The department and the North Slave Correctional Centre are making every effort to fill this position. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary. Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I’d hate to waste a question by asking, what does that mean?

Is the Minister running a competition right now? Is he looking for someone? Not personally, obviously. What are they doing in the context of finding someone on a permanent basis? If he wants, I can give him names of qualified individuals who could certainly fill this role. But it’s not my job to be a human resource officer; I’m an MLA.

So, the bottom line is, I want to know exactly what actions have been done to fill this position permanently. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I’d be more than happy to go back to the department to get the Member an updated list of things we’ve done, what we’re doing to fill that position and when another competition to fill it permanently will take place. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Weledeh. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for Minister R.C. McLeod. I was pleased to hear, earlier in the session, that the Department of Lands has instituted a moratorium on new recreational leases until a new made-in-the-NWT lands framework is developed. However, this does not address the unauthorized structures and land occupancy that has sprung up in the intervening vacuum.

What plans does the Minister have to address the proliferation of illegal structures we see already built and continuing to be built on public Territorial land? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Lands, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve received a number of complaints from citizens out there as to citizens hauling material out. We did some follow-up, and in most cases, these were leases that were let. They have up to three years to put a structure on there. So most of them checked out and they had legitimate leases.

But for those that are squatting on Territorial land, as we call it now, we will take action against them. I think we’ve got 12 cases in the hopper right now that we’re working on, and as we continue to get more reports of people squatting out there, we will

go and investigate. If we have to, we will investigate and pursue it further. Thank you.

MR. BROMLEY: I appreciate the Minister’s commitment there. Devolution certainly gave control of most of the lands of the NWT to the territorial government, but control is more than writing regulations – they sound good on paper, obviously – it is also having the ability and the will the Minister has expressed to enforce them. Unenforced regulations might as well not exist, as we’ve learned from our federal management experience.

What resources, money and people does the Minister plan to put into addressing the burgeoning enforcement issue in relation to these new regulations? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Before devolution, in recognizing some of the situations that we were facing, we had actually helped our enforcement division within Municipal and Community Affairs to deal with some of these. Since devolution and all the folks we got over from AANDC and the number of people that we brought on board, our enforcement division is a lot larger now. As for the exact numbers, I’d have to get those to the exact dollar figures. I would have to get those.

But I made a commitment to Members during briefing that we are committed to dealing with the squatting issue out there, and if we have to increase our enforcement and the money that we put into it, then that’s the route we will take. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. Just driving out to Behchoko, I estimate perhaps 100 cases of land occupancy en route. I have no idea how many are legal or not, but the last time I looked there were two leases between Yellowknife and Behchoko.

The Department of Lands has no inventory of illegal structures on Territorial land, of which we know there are at least dozens, possibly hundreds, despite their mandate, and a list of the legal structures in place through leases. It would seem easy enough to develop such an inventory, identifying all the structures and subtracting the ones which we know – the Minister would know having issued them – are legal leases.

How does the Minister propose to even begin enforcing newly minted regulations if we have no idea who is flouting them? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We have a pretty good idea of the numbers out there and names that are attached with them. We had over 550 personal and recreational use leases that came over from AANDC, not including the ones we had in MACA, which wasn’t that large of a number. We also know of fewer than 200 documented unauthorized users. So we know those numbers right now and we’ll

work off those numbers as we work to complete our inventory of all land occupancy across the Northwest Territories and Territorial land and we will update our numbers again.

I’ve committed to provide updates to committee on a regular basis on the work we are doing. We do have some numbers and names that go with the numbers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I’m hearing something different than I heard recently, that we don’t have an inventory and we can’t afford to make one, and that we have some indication of what’s legal, and that’s upwards of a couple hundred of unauthorized land users.

The Minister has indicated the mechanism for members of the public to report suspected squatters when they come across them in their travels across our commons is a worthwhile action, in my communications with the Minister. Such a simple instrument of capturing public capacity should be operational today in order to provide important perspectives on illegal occupancy during the development of regs and help prepare for the enforcement the Minister declares is forthcoming.

Why have we not heard about a way to incorporate the straightforward participation of the public enveloping such an inventory and when and how will the public learn about this initiative? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The public plays a great role in helping with the inventory. As I mentioned before, we do get a number of calls from the public, identifying or questions that they might have to someone’s occupancy. Sometimes we are able to satisfy their inquiry, and in some cases we find out it may be somebody that’s illegally on that land, so we will act on that.

There is an opportunity for them to call our department. I think we made it available on our website. We have developed a communication plan that we want to share with the public to let them know what they can do as far as reporting and having their input into the whole recreational leasing policy framework that we want to do. We have a communication plan and we will work with the Members and have this plan go public, so they have an idea of what we’re doing and where they can go for their input. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Menicoche. Earlier in the day I spoke about being

upset about the RCMP detachments in Gameti and Wrigley being postponed indefinitely. I`d like to ask the Minister of Justice, what is the nature of our new contract for RCMP services with regard to infrastructure? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Back in 2007, when it was contemplated about building detachments in Gameti and Wrigley, we were under the old policing services contract. The federal government was responsible at the time for capital costs of new detachments in the Northwest Territories. In 2012 we signed a new Police Services Agreement where the Government of the Northwest Territories was 70 percent responsible for those same capital costs. Back in May of 2012, my predecessor at the Department of Justice, Minister Abernethy, had written a letter to yourself outlining the changes in the new policing services that we have, the agreement we have with the feds, and outlined we are in a different set of circumstances when it came to new detachments in the Northwest Territories. That was outlined in that letter, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I would like to thank the Minister for that clarification. The needs are still there, Mr. Speaker.

What is the plan to ensure that Wrigley and Gameti RCMP detachments make it on the 20-year capital needs assessment? How can the Minister and what can the Minister do to ensure it at least makes that 20-year capital plan?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

We’d have to continue to work with the RCMP on making that determination. When I was recently in Gameti last week with Minister Lafferty, we discussed ways to enhance the level of service for the community of Gameti. We are very much interested in looking at ways the RCMP can continue to work with the leadership and community members across the Northwest Territories on community policing plans, identifying priorities in the community that are important to the leaders and the members in that community and carrying out the work of the RCMP in those communities where we can enhance services, and that’s what we talked about with the residents and the chief there last week, how we could enhance and look at possibilities of enhancing service.

I understand the members that are based out of Fort Simpson service the community of Wrigley on a weekly basis and overnight in the community a couple nights a week. We need to continue the dialogue with the community of Wrigley and, Mr. Speaker, if the Member likes, like I did in Gameti, we had an opportunity to go there and explain to the leadership of the community what we were doing with the RCMP and the department of Justice in providing that service to the community to the

best of our ability. I’d be more than happy to travel to his community of Wrigley to explain that to Wrigley as well. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I would certainly welcome the Minister to the riding and we can work on something about that.

The news article also spoke about these facilities costing about $11 million to $13 million. I think in 2007, when we were discussing the possibility, we were looking at a portable and a much smaller facility. At least it had a holding cell when the RCMP were there.

What kind of facility and what kind of plans is he talking about if he wants to spend that much money for a facility? It seems quite excessive for the needs of the community. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

A new detachment does come with a lofty price tag. That’s why, with the resources that we do have, we have to try to find a way of moving forward with improving the level of service. In the case of Gameti, we talked about a holding cell being provided in the community. If we get into Wrigley and Wrigley leadership identifies that as a need, that’s something we will continue to work on.

We always need to be moving the yardsticks forward, Mr. Speaker. In the case of providing service, we are going to do that.

Again, I look forward to travelling to Wrigley and I can explain that to the community myself. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think back in the mid-‘70s when they had an RCMP detachment in Wrigley, they were talking about developing a road and pipelines. Some of those same issues are coming up again with the development that’s happening in the Sahtu.

Can they start planning and see the need to establish an RCMP detachment in Wrigley to be prepared for the development that’s going to happen? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.