This is page numbers 5143 – 5178 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was energy.

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Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The engagement process obviously started back in November of 2010 when we met with the board chairs and superintendents to discuss this matter in the preliminary stages at that time. There was also a letter directly to the board chairs, as well, the DECs, in January of 2011. So within the next few months from there. There’s also a proposed approach that was discussed with the board chairs and the superintendents as recently as May 2014 and there was no opposition to the changes.

Just last month, a month ago, I also met with the South Slave because they brought up some concerns on the reporting mechanism, and we dealt with that and they were satisfied when we left the community of Hay River Reserve. They did have logistical questions about bringing superintendents into the public service, but we did answer their questions and that satisfied them as well.

The financial cost, obviously it’s been brought up in the committee’s discussion. Not only that but even at the district education council, who is going to be paying for the difference if there is a cost factor once their contract is up and they’re transferred over to public service? I did commit to the standing committee that my department, obviously, will cover the costs. We don’t know what the costs will be at this point because it does fluctuate, but when the contract term is up, then we’ll know for sure and then we’ll cover those costs at that time.

A decrease in funding potentially because a superintendent’s salary is under public service. We’ll continue to provide the financial budget to the district education council because they have to hire or retain a superintendent and they still pay. It’s just a paper transaction that we provide the senior Hay Plan, the salary that’s attached that’s comparable to other senior staff and provide that to the district education council and they’ll continue to provide that to their superintendent. So the budget doesn’t really change in that regard because we’ll be doing it according to the GNWT Hay Plan on senior staff.

The two-tier system has been brought up by the standing committee as well. YK1 and YCS are out of the picture. Not only that but there was discussion about the Tlicho Community Services Agency, as well, because of their uniqueness, a self-governing board. This is an area that obviously has been brought to our attention and by nature, obviously, they’re divided into two different approaches. The staff and teachers of two Yellowknife boards, obviously, the YK1 and YCS are outside the public service. The teachers are not part of the public service, so their superintendents remain outside the public service and they maintain consistency within their organization.

Those are just some of the discussions that we’ve had with the board chairs. The board chairs raised that issue with us, as well, what’s going to happen to us. So, we did raise that issue with them. We’ll continue how we’ve been doing business with YK1 and YCS.

The Member did raise the issue of direct appointments, as well, in the standing committee. There were a lot of options, a lot of scenarios. What if there’s favouritism from the department perspective or the DECs? I did make a commitment to the standing committee that we have to find the best qualified superintendent, preferably Northerners, of course, to be on the DEC. Any appointment process obviously would fall to the government to make that decision. They are recommendations from the DECs.

All these years, the Dehcho Education Council has made the recommendations and I’ve brought that forward, as the Minister responsible, to the government. At the end of the day, the government makes a decision on that. But it’s always been the case where the government made a case and there was support from the DEC, there were no issues over the years. That practice will continue. At the end of the day, my view is that we find the best superintendent as possible with the qualifications and also the experience. The DECs also request that the incumbent superintendents be direct appointed to the positon of superintendent with the public service, so we’ve been dealing with the DECs on this matter as well.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next I have Ms. Bisaro.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments are not dissimilar to those of my colleagues. I will be brief because they’ve pretty much been mentioned.

I want to, at the outset, say that I’m very glad to hear the Minister finally confirmed that any costs to the boards for superintendents to withdraw from NEBS will be covered by the department. That was something that took us a little while to get that confirmed, but I’m very glad to hear that that is now confirmed.

I have the same concerns as a number of my colleagues in bringing superintendents in under the public service. Not that their relationship with either the Minister or the board will change, but I see that there’s going to be a conflict of interest for those superintendents, particularly with regard to policy. If there is a policy which the department or the Minister wishes to put in place – not a directive but just a policy or a change to a program – and the board disagrees with that change, the board will need to rely on their superintendent to speak on their behalf, to do work on their behalf, to get the message through to the department and to the Minister. Yet, at the same time, the superintendent is employed basically by the Minister and will feel obligated not to speak against the government. That’s what most GNWT employees are obligated to do, not to speak against the government.

It’s one thing to say that the board can speak to the Minister and can present their case. That’s all well and good, but board members are volunteers and board members are not involved in the day-to-day operation of the board and of the education authority and superintendents are, so it’s going to be difficult for board chairs to truly fight a policy or a program change without the support of their superintendent. I see that as a problem. Mr. Hawkins referenced a situation where superintendents in the not so distant past were advised not to speak against a particular programming change that was coming down, and the department will have the capability to dictate to superintendents what they can and cannot say, and that’s a very large concern for me.

The only other question I have here, in the Minister’s opening remarks he says that this change will create consistency between the employment status of superintendents and their staff and teachers, and by that I think he meant that they will all be part of the public service. I don’t think we ever talked about this when we discussed this issue at committee, but that sort of consistency in employment status suggests to me that it’s possible that the superintendents may be part of the teachers’ union, and I would like to get that confirmed. If that’s the case, I think that’s fraught with difficulties. That’s really my only question.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The Member raised the conflict of interest between the Minister and the board chairs and the DECs with respect to if there are any program changes the superintendent, well, they’ll still work on their DECs. I don’t see that changing. Right now, if we’re introducing a new initiative and there are issues, the board chairs usually raise that issue with us, whether it be public or in person with the Minister responsible for education. Superintendents will continue on record. They will still continue to report and to provide advice if there are any issues with program delivery. Obviously, they’ll be reaching to their DECs to raise their concerns to us as the Minister responsible.

I deal with the district education council chairs and also elected members of the DECs and DEAs. Superintendents still have their avenue through the board chairs and that continues to exist today and even into the future. The reporting mechanism is not part of the bill, obviously, but as I stated before, I deal with elected officials. Superintendents will continue to provide advice. Those two individual superintendents that we’re discussing, three are already part of this comment. I’ll have Ms. Mueller to elaborate, because Member Bisaro alluded to the teachers’ union. I’ll provide that to Ms. Mueller.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Assistant Deputy Minister Mueller.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Mueller

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The answer would be no, the superintendents would not belong to the Northwest Territories Teachers’ Association.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Assistant Deputy Minister. Ms. Bisaro, anything further?

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. No, I think that’s it. Thank you.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Committee, we’re on general comments for Bill 25. Does committee agree we have completed general comments?

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

We’ll go to clause-by-clause review of the bill with a further number in the title. Clause 1.

---Clauses 1 through 4 inclusive approved

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

The bill as a whole?

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Does committee agree that Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act, is ready for third reading?

---Bill 25 as a whole approved for third reading

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Thank you, witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber.

Committee, we will now work to Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014. I’ll go to the Minister responsible. Minister Ramsay.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I am pleased to be here today to discuss Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014. I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Social Programs for its review of the bill.

The purpose of Bill 27 is to amend various statutes of the Northwest Territories for which minor changes are proposed or errors or inconsistencies have been identified.

Each amendment included in the bill had to meet the following criteria:

a)it must not be controversial;

b)it must not involve the spending of public funds;

c)it must not prejudicially affect rights;

d)it must not create a new offence or subject a new class of persons to an existing offence.

Departments responsible for the various statutes being amended have reviewed and approved the changes.

Most amendments proposed in Bill 27 are minor in nature and many consist of technical corrections to a statute. The amendments are of such a nature that the preparation and legislative consideration of individual bills to correct each statute would be time consuming for the government and the Legislative Assembly.

I will be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have regarding this bill. Thank you.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Next, I’ll go to the chair of Social programs, Mr. Moses.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Standing Committee on Social Programs conducted its public review of Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014, on September 12, 2014. A clause-by-clause review was conducted the same day. The committee thanks the Minister and his staff for presenting the bill.

This bill corrects inconsistencies and errors in the statutes of the Northwest Territories. The bill also deals with matters of a minor, noncontroversial and uncomplicated nature. A minor amendment was made at the committee clause-by-clause review and concurred with by the Minister. Following the committee’s review, a motion was carried to report Bill 27 to the Assembly as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole as amended and reprinted.

This concludes the committee’s opening comments on Bill 27. Individual members may have questions or comments as we proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Committee agree to go to general comments?

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Minister Ramsay, do you have witnesses to bring into the Chamber?

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Committee agree?

Committee Motion 97-17(5): Amendment To Clause 5, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.