This is page numbers 5179 – 5220 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was services.

Topics

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I’m not aware of the exact cost, but I will confirm that and provide it to the Member. I will remind the Member that what we’re talking about doing here in the Northwest Territories is a fundamental change to the way that we provide health and social services. With respect to consensus government and with respect to making sure that the people are engaged, we are trying to ensure that the people have the information and have an opportunity to engage and provide us with much detail and information and thoughts on this important transition. This marketing campaign is intended to ensure that people are aware what’s going on, give

them an opportunity to get their input and guidance into us so that we can make sure that when we make the changes to the NWT health and social services system we get it right so that it meets the best interests of the patients.

I will confirm the actual cost, but this is an important initiative. I’ve heard the Member on many occasions talk about consulting with the people, listening to the people. This is our method of ensuring people know what’s going on and encouraging them to be active participants in this change.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

The ads ask people to come to the website to give their comments which, incidentally, seems to be the preferred method of public consultation for this government now. In these expensive ads MLAs are frequently featured and touted as supporters of improvements to the NWT health care system. I have yet to meet any MLA or anybody who isn’t.

On what basis has the Minister concluded that the public would benefit more from the tens of thousands spent monthly on colour advertising featuring MLAs saying they support improvements to health delivery rather than actual expenditures on more or better health delivery?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

As the Minister of Health and Social Services I’ve had a significant amount of opportunity to work with the Social Programs committee, and the Social Programs committee has told me time and time again we need to do something different to improve the results for the residents of the Northwest Territories. We need to improve health care. We could run out and make the change, but it’s important, in my opinion, to talk to as many people as we can. I’ve had an opportunity to travel to communities throughout the Northwest Territories and talk to our residents, talk to our people and hear what they have to say about improving the system.

This is an advertising campaign to encourage people to get involved, get engaged and be aware. I hear the Member. I don’t agree with the Member. I think it’s important to be engaged. I think it is important to get input. We have had a significant amount of input as a result of these ads, and we will continue to see input as we move forward. This is step one.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Again, full colour, quarter-page ads are very expensive. This government is always telling us how tight money is and many worthwhile projects go begging for lack of funds.

How has the response the Department of Health and Social Services received through its website as a result of these costly ads been justified or has the result, in fact, been on par with the dismal response

to the ads inviting input into devolution on that website?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

The period for this first initial round of input ended on October 31st , and

we’re currently compiling the significant amount of input and data that we received. I’m going to be happy to share that with Members when we have had an opportunity to consolidate that.

I’ll say it again, this is an important initiative for the people of the Northwest Territories. Regular Members, the Social Programs committee has indicated time and time again we need to do something differently; we need to think outside the box. These ads have been an opportunity for us to encourage people to be engaged, to provide us with data, to provide us with information, so that together we can make informed decisions on moving forward with an improved health and social services system. I think a small investment in ads to encourage this conversation is worth it, and I would be happy to share that data with the Member when we’ve consolidated it.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m sure MLAs enjoy the free advertising. Which of us wouldn’t? But I suspect the public may have a different view.

Given that this campaign is over, can we expect any more of these and can we expect to see tens of thousands of more dollars drained away from health delivery with exercises such as this?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’m, frankly, a little confused by the Member’s direction here. From time to time we hear the Member talking about how important it is to engage and consult with the public, and now he’s saying but in this case it’s too expensive and I don’t like the colour ads.

This is an important initiative. We are making fundamental changes to the way we provide health and social services in the Northwest Territories. I’ve worked with Regular Members. I’ve worked with Social Programs and made an offer to Social Programs who have articulated time and time again that they’re directing us to make significant changes, and I asked them if they’d be interested. Some of the members said yes. Some of the members said no. We will continue to move forward to make these changes, and we will continue to engage the public in whichever ways are appropriate to get as much feedback and input as we can.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like the Minister of Justice to talk about the Maintenance Enforcement Program, as I highlighted in my Member’s statement. My concerns, of course, are if we’re not fighting as hard as we can for those parents going through that process, those parents need every dollar and they struggle. But when we have debtors that do not pay, it’s almost like the foot that keeps them under the water as they struggle, and we must do every effort we can to help those families who are struggling.

The question to the Minister of Justice is maybe he can outline some of the process here, and I’m waiting until he looks ready. Maybe he can outline some of the process here as to when debtors are identified. How long does it take to get an engagement of the order in place so we start collecting some money? I can speak to examples here that we found people working and we get no money out of them, and then they’ve disappeared off the radar again, and who are we punishing? Not just the mother but the children, and we’ve got to solve that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It would have to be a debtor that, first, one of the persons would have to apply to maintenance enforcement to put the other parent in the program. It takes three months or $3,000, I believe. Those are the two triggers without payment that would look to maintenance enforcement moving on some enforcement opportunities that they have at their disposal to collect the money. There are a number of those that I can outline for the Member. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for at least getting the discussion going now.

We have cases where we have in excess of the $10 million of outstanding payments to family members through the Maintenance Enforcement Program that has recently been reported upon. The example I am providing is not just a single example, it’s applied many times over, shamefully of course. But why is it left to the single mothers to track down these folks to make sure they are paying, or at least tracking them down for maintenance enforcement? We have cases where these people have found them and maintenance enforcement has not engaged with this particular debtor’s employer and made them pay their maintenance enforcement through a garnishment program.

What is stopping the maintenance enforcement from doing that? What is the delay? What type of

process engagement, because we have families that are unfairly being denied this money. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

There are many tools available to obtain payments from parents through maintenance enforcement. Driver licence revocation and partnerships with Canada Revenue Agency to obtain information, the ability to garnishee wages, and we have to carefully consider the effectiveness of approaches that involve publically shaming parents before we use them. Unfortunately, we have instances where parents do not have the ability to pay. They are without work or are the subject of other payment orders such as those from the federal government. We, of course, want to use all options available to us, but again we need to very carefully consider what works before engaging tools such as this. We work with the other agencies involved to get the information so that we can attempt to make collection on the arrears. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, these arrears are hurting the families, the single parent, that is, and certainly the children, and keeping them in their situation of poverty.

Ontario has a website called goodparentspay. They even shame the bad parents who don’t pay. They actually have posters, almost like wanted posters showing this.

I go back to the problem because we still haven’t got an answer for it. What does it take to engage an order that is legally directed by the courts? The Minister knows of the particular example, but it is not the only example out there. People have found the debtor, pointed them to maintenance enforcement and nothing has been done to go get the money that is duly court ordered and owed to them. So, frankly, this family continues to struggle like so many.

Can the Minister focus just on that question and not dance around it? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, there are tools available to our staff at maintenance enforcement, and I want to state for the record, I have the utmost respect and admiration for the job that our staff at maintenance enforcement do on a day-to-day basis. They are challenged with some very trying circumstances involving a lot of feelings and emotions and they do a great job for us.

The Member, if he has specific occurrences or situations, I would be more than happy, more than willing to talk about somebody’s circumstances and whether or not the processes that we have in place at maintenance enforcement are not meeting their requirements. Each circumstance, of course, is different. I would suggest to the Member, if he has an individual or person that feels the system isn’t supporting them, that we’re not doing enough for

them, tell us who they are and we will do our best to try to help them out. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is not a new problem. This is not about trying to beat up the maintenance enforcement staff, and I would resent any characterization about this. This is about the process of trying to get the money to the families that need it.

To my knowledge there have been no default hearings in the last few years here in the Northwest Territories, and that continues to be a problem. I have a bunch of questions still outstanding with this department almost a month old on this particular file. The parents are waiting, they are struggling and the children are the ones being punished by the process being too slow and doesn’t engage.

The final point I want to make is the system is designed almost to make the single parent, who is taking the full responsibility of the children, to also be the police mechanism to go report them, and that’s not fair. The system must support them and I have tried to highlight how it should. We need some real answers and engagement.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I’m an easy guy to get in contact with. My phone number in my office is 669-2377. If anybody, anybody out there, feels that maintenance enforcement is not addressing their concerns, please contact me. I would be more than happy to try to help them out. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s kind of unfortunate that we’re continuing with these junior kindergarten discussions and the implementation that occurred over the past year and this fall and the amount of money that is coming out of the district education authorities throughout the Northwest Territories.

Before I get into what we can do for the Beaufort- Delta Education Authority, I would just like to also acknowledge that the government, even though I’ll be asking questions today on how we can fix this and offset this and mitigate it, that the government has been pretty good in a couple of areas: the Children First Centre, the investment in the infrastructure and doing this one-time funding for e- learning and understanding that e-learning is a very important tool. However, when we do give funding to these education authorities to do the good programming, the innovative work that gets our students in the coastal communities, the isolated

communities, educated and then a year later we tell them that now they are going to have to find funding to run a program that was fast tracked.

I would like to ask the Minister in terms of all this, I have been asking for extra dollars for the Beaufort- Delta Education Authority and the formula funding framework. This is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Has the Minister come up with a funding formula to assist equal funding based on location for education authorities across the Northwest Territories? Is there a funding formula in place? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The funding formula is already in place, based on enrollment of the students in the school system. Based on that, our contribution is on an annual basis, pending the number of students before September 31st.

Those are some of the areas that we have been dealing with based on formula funding across the Northwest Territories. That is how we base our funding to the district education councils. The district education council also works with the DEAs, district education authority, for funding down to the specific communities. We do have formula funding in place. Mahsi.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I guess further up they get a little bit more detailed. Is that formula funding that is in place right now, the framework, in place so that communities in the Beaufort-Delta region, with the high cost of travel, even just getting out of Inuvik to come to Yellowknife is very expensive, but if you take it even further and go to Paulatuk, to Ulukhaktok or Sachs, it gets really expensive and it just eats up the education authorities’ budgets. Is that unique situation put into the formula funding framework and is that addressed in the current formula funding that we have right now? Thank you.