Debates of June 8th, 2016

This is page numbers 455-492 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Oral Questions

Prayer

Minister’s Statements 41-18(2): Energy Initiatives Of Public Works And Services

Minister’s Statement 42-18(2): Update On The Northwest Territories Power Corporation

Minister’s Statement 43-18(2): Northwest Territories Climate Change Strategic Framework

Minister’s Statement 44-18(2): Development Of The NWT Energy Plan

Need For Suitable, Adequate And Affordable Housing

Impact Of Migration On Homelessness In Yellowknife

Community Housing Development Plans

Addressing The Need For Affordable Rental Units

Self-Government Initiatives In The Sahtu

Employment Opportunities Relating To Housing Construction

Territorial Housing Issues

Economic Solutions To Reduce Need For Subsidized Housing

Ulukhaktok Arena Closure

Congratulations To Echo Dene School Graduates

Midwifery Services In The Northwest Territories

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Construction Schedule For Charles Tetcho School In Trout Lake

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Communications Strategy

Improvements To Housing Corporation

Supporting Housing First Clients

Implementing The Deline Community Self-Government Agreement

Reducing The Need For Emergency Shelter Services

Costs Associated With Modular Homes

Midwifery Services

Responsibilities Associated With First Nations Housing

Ulukhaktok Arena Remediation

Replies to Budget Address

Tabled Document 56-18(2): Report Of The Northwest Territories Judicial Remuneration Commission 2016

Tabled Document 57-18(2): Northwest Territories State Of The Environment Report Highlights 2016

Tabled Document 58-18(2): North Slave Resiliency Study Final Report

Consideration in Committee of the Whole on Bills and Other Matters

Motion 30‑18(2): Tabled Document 50‑18(2) Main Estimates 2016‑2017 Environment And Natural Resources, Corporate Management Operations Expenditures (Pg. 87) Reinstatement Of Funding For Public Education Coordinator In Field Support Unit

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Mr. Campbell.

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The key to ensure this initiative becomes a reality is the completion of the fibre agreements with the community entities and the proponent for the pellet mill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Nadli. Nothing further. Seeing no more comments or questions, we can move on to page 97. Forest management, active positions. Questions? Seeing none. Back to page 95 where we will call this total. Actually, we'll discuss this page first. Page 95, forest management, operations expenditure summary. Comments or questions? Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just wanted to dig a little deeper into the reconfiguration of the fire crews and the loss of positions in the communities. I notice that there's still the same amount of firefighters and I knew that; the Minister had advised me of that. I'm wondering what process was used to determine that some communities would lose positions.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Campbell.

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In 2012, the Department of Environment and Natural Resources undertook a program review, and through that process is where we had the recommendation to go down this road of creating crews that were five-man crews to four-man crews through that program review process. In anticipation of that and going forward with other jurisdictions in the country going to four-man crews as well, we managed our crew contingent with the expectation that was coming down the pipe. For an example, there was some of the communities where our five-man crews where there was permanent seasonal positions, if there was individuals that either resigned or the position became vacant we did not permanently staff those positions; we staffed them with casuals. The discussion with the communities in the regions, they were aware that we were going down this road. We also undertook an exercise where we reviewed with our contract partners the personnel contracts with those Aboriginal governments and through that exercise as well, they were informed that we would be going from five-man to four-man crews to be more effective, more efficient, and to allow us again to go from 28 to 35 crews. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that's good there's more crews, more efficient crews. However, the process of eliminating positions, whether they be casuals or not, at some point there are two less jobs in communities where there are two crews and there's one less job in a community where there is one crew. We are going through an exercise here at this point where we are talking about some half-time positions in Yellowknife, as an example. Some part-time positions in various communities across the NWT. We've been talking lots about the employment rates in small communities. Above all, there's one thing we don't want to see in small communities is lose positions. What happens is if the government determines that a four-man crew are more efficient, then shouldn't it be incumbent upon the department to make sure that the leftover firefighter is placed in the community in a PY, or else there's an actual loss of a person year in that community, which I'm opposed to. I think all Members of the Assembly from small communities are opposed to.

We stand up in the House and we talk about the lack of employment in small communities, the low employment rates, the communities are having difficulties surviving without a lot of government subsidies. The government is prepared-- at this point more prepared to offer income support, social housing, and other subsidies for an individual-- for a person to stay at home and what we need is we need people to have jobs. With this type of move then this department has eliminated PYs. It doesn't matter that they only fill casuals in the last couple of years, that don't matter to me; the bottom line is we lost positions. If they want to add crews in some communities, fine, I have no issue with that. I certainly don't have an issue with them bringing back an old crew that used to exist in Tsiigehtchic that was taken away at some point and brought backm but what I'm opposed to and will not support, is that the positions being taken out of small communities. I will not support a budget that removes PYs from Fort Resolution, Lutselk'e, or Detah, or Ndilo. Thank you.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Campbell.

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely there are impacts to some communities and there's benefits to others. Overall, we have more crews. We still have programs that, for an example, if a fire is threatening areas, whether it's the South Slave or the Dehcho or whatever, we have programs where we can, to increase our personnel we can hire extra personnel. We do know that over the years in many of our communities we've trained up a lot of firefighters. There's other programs where in the event of a fire that we would ramp up and hire more personnel. The other piece, I guess, you know, going forward with the community in the South Slave there in particular where we just recently talked about the forest industry initiative, at some point, you know, when the initiative is underway we would probably be forced to look at an increase in that community to protect that fibre supply, so. At this point, I certainly recognize the impact but again, the overall, collectively as a whole for the Territories, we are better off with this arrangement. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I don't know where the positions went to so I don't know if we're better off. I don't know if the positions were taken out of communities that had low employment rates and put in the larger centres that have more crews. Larger centres that have more than four crews that could within themselves create… If they had 20 firefighters, for example, they could easily go from from four crews to five crews without any impact. Or if there's three crews and there's more people needed they'd have to come from some community. All I know is that the impact is felt by communities and that's what the problem is. Is that, like, are we going to go through a process of reducing PYs in any particular community? If we want to look at the 97 seasonal positions then I'll ask the Minister: can you provide us with where all the shifts occurred? Where did the PY shift to? Did the PY shift to Hay River? Or did the PY shift to another community? What happened? How did this come about where the crews got smaller?

Even if we were to be informed of the fact that we're moving to four-men crew, that's okay. But I need to know how we went through the process here in the House dealing with the Minister of Finance on this budget and not being advised that these PYs are being moved out of the position because they're only casuals anyway. But even casuals have families and we need to address that issue. Thank you.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Your time is up. If you'd like to get back in the queue you can, but I'll let Mr. Campbell answer.

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Regarding where the positions ended up and where the communities have the crews and that, we certainly can provide that list. As far as how we went from five to four, again, I mentioned the program review. We have our arrangement with… In particular, our rotary wing aircraft for initial attack for these crews, the configuration is where we can now be more efficient by doing initial attack on fires, where in the past, we would use three trips with the water wing. With this arrangement, again we're down to two trips. It's the makeup of our resources that we have and our crews that allows us to be consistent with other jurisdictions across Canada to be more effective and more efficient. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Next on the list I have Mr. Testart.

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Sorry, Mr. Chair. Nothing from me.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Mr. Thompson.

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I'm trying to better understand the efficiencies here. We've gone to a four-man crew to a five-man... From a five-man crew to a four-man crew. Is the efficiencies in fighting the fire or is the efficiencies in saving money for the department? In other words, the helicopters, equipment, stuff like that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell.

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The efficiencies are actually in both fighting fire and, again, taking advantage of our fiscal resources. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Thompson?

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Probably the deputy minister is going to have to explain how they're more efficient in fighting fires with a four-man crew compared to a five-man crew. If you have five people you're going to--

Some Hon. Member

Twenty per cent more work.

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Yes, there's 20 per cent more work. I'm just trying to understand the efficiency and how... I understand the efficiencies with the budget and saving money for the equipment and, you know, operations. I've heard the deputy minister say that, you know, there's two flights versus three flights, and I understand that. That's a cost saving; that makes sense, but when we're talking about efficiencies with a four-man crew versus a five-man crew, can a five-man crew not do a better job than a four-man crew or is there some… I'll just leave it at that and I'll ask the next question after. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Campbell.

Debates of June 8th, 2016

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