Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the department maybe describe for us what the average length of stay is for an individual in remand? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Mr. Chair, I'm not absolutely certain as to the average length of stay. I do know that the issue of remands across the country is an issue of quite a high per centage of inmates in our system, approximately 60 per cent are on remand, and I think that's consistent with statistics across Canada. I do know, however, that we have one of the best records of getting people to court. So, unlike in the south when there's very often a very long delay and people spending a long, long period of time on remand that doesn't tend to happen as much here. But, unfortunately, I do not have in front of me statistics as to what the average remand time is. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While it's good to understand we have the best record, it certainly would be appreciated if information could be shared about what the average length of stay is, because there certainly have been complaints in the past that some of these stays have been exceptionally long. What steps is the department taking to actually get these people out of remand and into the court to have their day? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Mr. Chair, of course, court schedules and everything are far beyond our control; that's up to the judiciary. I know that the judiciary is very aware of the issue of people on remand; it's an issue everywhere. As I say, we have the best or one of the best records of getting people to court so that they will spend the shortest period of time on remand. So it's an issue the judiciary and we are alive to, and I think we are doing far better than most jurisdictions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, one of the ongoing complaints is that-- and I will ask the department to please clarify this if, in fact, I am not correct. One of the complaints is that while individuals are in remand, and again, some are there for fairly lengthy periods, that the many good programs that were described earlier they do not have access to. So the question is: is there an opportunity to have access to healing and personal reform programs while in remand? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister.

Mr. Chair, if I could assist with some statistics about the average length of custody; that information is now before me. For adult males the average remand time is apparently 53 days; adult females is 38 days; male youths is 53 days; and female youths is four days. So although there are a lot of people on remand, it would appear to me that the average remand length is quite short.

With respect to those on remand, we have attempted over the last few years to allow them to avail themselves to as many programs as is possible. Clearly, they cannot likely take all of the programs because some of those require leaving the facility. That is a change that has been made over the last few years. I know it was a complaint and a genuine concern years ago, but we have alleviated the problem to a large extent. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. There is nothing further from Mr. Vanthuyne. Seeing no further comments or questions I'll proceed to the call the page: Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, total activity $37,610,000. Agreed?

We will now move on to Court Services. The total activities on page 271, so we will defer that until we discuss the detail on page 272. Page 272, court services, active positions. Comments or questions? Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister or his staff describe the six positions that are being cut here? Talk a little bit about what those positions are and whether they're vacant or not? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.

Yes, Mr. Chair. The reductions are the court librarian position in Yellowknife, court officer in Inuvik, and--I'm sorry, four court positions in Inuvik, and manager of court registry also in Inuvik. I understand that the manager's position in Inuvik has been vacant as well as two of the court officer positions have been vacant for some period of time.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't have any further questions on this page.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly, and just a reminder to let our audio techs know when you are done speaking so they can switch over the mikes and we can proceed in a timely fashion. No further comments or questions on page 272. We'll turn to page 271 court services, operations expenditure summary. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I believe this is the page where the court library for the Northwest Territories has been cut, including the staff person there. I wanted to start by asking the Minister how the cut of the court library meets the mandate of the 18thAssembly, especially in this regard. So mandate reads, or item 4.4.3 reads, "we will seek to improve access to justice in the Northwest Territories by expanding legal outreach programs and expanding public education on programs and services." I'm wondering if the Minister or his staff can explain how cutting the court library helps us achieve that part of our mandate? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert.

Mr. Chair, legal aid has expanded its operations in the area of outreach. There is now an individual that goes out to many of the smaller communities dealing with sometimes issues that cannot be dealt with, either by private lawyers or by the legal aid clinic lawyers, so there is an effort from legal aid to have actual individuals go out and help people, particularly in the smaller communities where access to justice is a large problem, there being no resident lawyers in most of those communities.

With respect to the issue of the library, as I have mentioned earlier, the expense of continuing the library in view of the use was simply thought that this was not a good use of our resources. Some history on this is that originally, the library was set up in 1978, and there were libraries in many of the communities. The legal profession was far different in those days. There were no online services to be utilized.

As time went on, that changed in the early 1990s. The satellite libraries were closed down in Inuvik, Hay River, and Fort Smith. Not too much time after that, the library in the courthouse in Yellowknife was reduced in size to about a third of its former size. Most lawyers now use online services, and in fact, if you go to a lawyer's office now, large firm or small, you tend not to see a library that was once seen to be a great asset in a law firm.

The outreach from legal aid has been increased, and the use of the library, the traditional resource of lawyers has fallen precipitously over the last ten or 15 years. So therefore, to be most effective in having legal outreach, we think we should concentrate our assets in such areas of having more legal aid outreach and reduce costs in other areas, specifically the library. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the long explanation from the Minister. Probably don't agree with it, but I'd like to ask the Minister, he said in the House yesterday that cutting the court library would save $467,000. When we were looking at this in the business plan, I understood the only cost savings would be from cutting the staff position that's associated with the library. Can the Minister tell us how this figure of $467,000 was calculated?