Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we present to the federal government, we present as one entity, so within the tri-territorial business case, all of our issues are kind of in one. We looked at similarities. I will bring forward to the next tri-territorial meeting, the suggestion -- if you are okay with it being a suggestion -- from our territorial government asking that it would probably serve in the interest of all of us if we could actually do the costing and provide that in the report as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister. That is all I am trying to do. I want to make sure we continue to keep the trust going and the partnership with the three territories. If this works, it works. If it doesn't, at least we made that offer there. Maybe some people in Ottawa are listening to what we are talking about here, and it may have an impact on it as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Would the Minister like to respond to that?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will take that as a comment. Thank you.

Thank you. Anything further, Mr. Thompson?

No. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am done with this page. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Any further comments or questions on page 364? Seeing none, I will call the page. NWT Housing Corporation, executive, operations expenditure summary, total activity, $1,391,000. Agreed?

Committee agrees. We will move on to finance and infrastructure services. We will defer the activity total on page 366 until we discuss the detail. Pages 367 and 368 are related. We can discuss these all at once here. Comments and questions? Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am just looking at the two homelessness initiatives, transitional support of housing and Housing First model. In the Minister's opening comments, she mentioned that there would be an additional $16.6 million in new federal social infrastructure funding, and one of the initiatives will be sending independent Housing First units. Trying to reconcile these two line items, one being Housing First model and the other being transitional support of housing. Core principles of Housing First are immediate access to housing with no housing readiness requirements, consumer choice, and self-determination, which is enabled through the provision of a rent supplement, individual, client-driven, and recovery-oriented supports, separation of housing and services harm reduction and community integration.

We have heard this from the Minister before that there are many different approaches to Housing First and other things fit in the Housing First model. We do have specific funding available for the Housing First model in the amount of $150,000 and then $600,000 transitional supporting. Can the Minister reconcile this difference here? Why one appears differently, but the opening comments seemed to imply that they are both Housing First. What is the Minister's understanding and the department's understanding of Housing First at this point? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister Cochrane.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The difference in the budget items are because the $150,000 for the Housing First model will be sustainable monies that will be provided year-in-year. That number is based on that because the mandate of the Housing Corporation is to really focus on housing. That money will be utilized for example, supplementary rent, if there is damages to the units, et cetera, so it has to be used for housing need. The reality is the City of Yellowknife, within this fiscal year, are looking at one person, perhaps up to five or six, but I haven't got confirmation on that from the city. I have only heard one person at this point. So to budget more than $150,000 for one person would probably not be necessary at this time. We would have to look at it later as the city's Housing First model moves on.

The 30 units that we are looking at for the one-time funding is actually -- we are looking at a maximum of $600,000 because we are guessing that it would cost, at a maximum, $20,000 per unit. That would be one-time funding and would not be carried in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Perhaps I didn't frame the question well enough. I am less interested in the funding or the principles of the funding, I suppose. For the semi-independent Housing First units that the department is committing to, are those included in that $600,000 transitional support housing line item? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

That is the $600,000 is just for the semi-independent units that we will be renovating. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. How did those semi-independent housing units fit with the Housing First model being that the Housing First model is driven by consumer choice? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This model also will be by consumer choice. Anyone that does not want to take those units, does not need to. It is an option for people. Everyone in the community, based on my experience with managing homeless shelters, is not mandated to stay in the shelter. They have an option if they want to get into other accommodations within the community. The reality is, who will open up their doors to these people? So the semi-independent living will be by choice, not by force. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Testart.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding of consumer choice would be that there is a choice given. The purpose is to house people and they have a choice in where they are being housed, not forced into housing. I don't think that is one of the principles at all. By providing a rent subsidy, as per most established Housing First models, you give clients more choices than a handful of, I think the Minister previously provided, 30 semi-independent housing units. So that is where I am finding the most difficulty with calling these Housing First units. I don't take issue with transitional supportive housing and semi-independent housing. It is just not Housing First. I think there is still a great deal of confusion about this. If we are going to do Housing First, let's do Housing First. The $150,000 to support the city of Yellowknife's Housing First model, which is established under those principles, that is Housing First. Anything else deviates too far away from the principles of Housing First to be called that. So let's just be clear about the language that we use, but I will drop that for now.

The other question I had was about the transitional rent supplement program. I have personal experience with this. It doesn't appear to me and the people who I know who have used it to be geared towards middle-class income earners. Those are people who may apply for the program and receive five to 10 dollars off their rent bills. But it is not helping those middle class move toward things. I know there is also the PATH program. What is the income threshold, really? Who is the TRSP really geared towards helping in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister.